Is Jesus a Mythical Character?

[Tristesse]

True, To me it seems most plausible that the story of jesus is something of legend. Like the stories of alexander the great, or similar stories.

 

[dogsgod]

True, To me it seems most plausible that the story of jesus is something of legend. Like the stories of alexander the great, or similar stories.

More like Hercules. It's not uncommon for legends to surround historical figures such as Alexander the Great. The difference is that for Jesus, all we have is the legend. We don't have a single article or contemporary mention of him.

 

[Tristesse]

More like Hercules. It's not uncommon for legends to surround historical figures such as Alexander the Great. The difference is that for Jesus, all we have is the legend. We don't have a single article or contemporary mention of him.

Yeah, or king arthur. It makes me kind of wonder, if jesus existed, why didn't he write anything of his own? surely he would have something worth wild to say, I mean he claimed to be the son of god. Or maybe he was illiterate, so is it possible for god to have an illiterate son?

 

[Smoke]

What we're dealing with here is people with a strong psychological need to believe that Jesus existed. Some people will never accept that a mythical Christ could well be at the root of Christianity. It's more than some people can bear for some reason, maybe too many firmly held beliefs at stake. I don't completely understand the need to believe a two thousand year old story has to be true, no matter how unbelievable it is.

Your competence as a psychologist is equal to your competence as a historian.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What we're dealing with here is people with a strong psychological need to believe that Jesus existed.

What a petty and thoroughly dishonest little ad hominem. Oberon has made his position very clear, and I'm a synagogue-attending religious naturalist.

 

[dogsgod]

Your competence as a psychologist is equal to your competence as a historian.

Historian? Jesus isn't found in history books, The Bible is a religious text.

 

[Tristesse]

Historian? Jesus isn't found in history books, The Bible is a religious text.

haha as funny as that sounds, I've actually had a theologian try and debate that jesus is in history text books. My immediate response was, were you home schooled?

 

[dogsgod]

What a petty and thoroughly dishonest little ad hominem. Oberon has made his position very clear, and I'm a synagogue-attending religious naturalist.

Religious naturalist. As in clearly confused?

 

[dogsgod]

haha as funny as that sounds, I've actually had a theologian try and debate that jesus is in history text books. My immediate response was, were you home schooled?

And God is in science books. Medieval mindsets die hard.

 

[Oberon]

Stories of godmen walking on water, healing the sick, calming the seas, defying death, this is the stuff of epic heroes, not historical events and real people. Jesus was the Hollywood attraction of the day. Believers, gottaluvem.

Spoken like one who has read nothing of ancient history. Plenty of acknowledged historical figures in ancient history (from the very well known, like Augustus Caesar, to the less well known, like Apollonius of Tyana) had traditions of myths and miracles grow up around them, and remain historical figures.

 

[logician]

More like Hercules. It's not uncommon for legends to surround historical figures such as Alexander the Great. The difference is that for Jesus, all we have is the legend. We don't have a single article or contemporary mention of him.

Christianity HAS to have a real historical Jesus, for believers, otherwise, of course, the divinity aspect is moot. That's why everytime anyone questions the historicity of said Jesus, the entire weight of Xian scholarship comes down hard on them, accusing them from being everything from heretics, to crackpots to dangerous people. It's also why the existence of a historical Jesus is tacitly accepted in the media etc.(with no real evidence), as they are afraid of the ramifications of being boat rockers themselves.

Of course,the supposed Jesus has not come again, didn't walk on water, didn't change water into wine, didn't raise the dead, and didn't rise himself, so really who or what was a supposed historical Jesus that seemed to be missed by historians.

We''ll never really know.

 

[dogsgod]

Spoken like one who has read nothing of ancient history. Plenty of acknowledged historical figures in ancient history (from the very well known, like Augustus Caesar, to the less well known, like Apollonius of Tyana) had traditions of myths and miracles grow up around them, and remain historical figures.

Some historical figures become legendary. Jesus hasn't been shown to be anything but legendary. It's a distinction that you obviously are having difficulty with.

 

[dogsgod]

Christianity HAS to have a real historical Jesus, for believers, otherwise, of course, the divinity aspect is moot. That's why everytime anyone questions the historicity of said Jesus, the entire weight of Xian scholarship comes down hard on them, accusing them from being everything from heretics, to crackpots to dangerous people. It's also why the existence of a historical Jesus is tacitly accepted in the media etc.(with no real evidence), as they are afraid of the ramifications of being boat rockers themselves.

Of course,the supposed Jesus has not come again, didn't walk on water, didn't change water into wine, didn't raise the dead, and didn't rise himself, so really who or what was a supposed historical Jesus that seemed to be missed by historians.

We''ll never really know.

There are collections of sayings and from those there is an indication that there may have been a community whose beliefs were rebuffed because they become defensive of their beliefs and wished harsh punishment upon those that didn't believe them. However, there is no way of connecting this group with the followers of a Jesus Christ that was crucified. Also gJohn writes of many disbelievers.

Yes, we'll never really know.

 

[Tristesse]

I think the majority of us, from what I can decipher, are in agreement about the miracles surrounding jesus, that they are something of myth and legend. So, I don't particularly care whether or not he actually lived as a man. It doesn't seem too important.

 

[dogsgod]

I think the majority of us, from what I can decipher, are in agreement about the miracles surrounding jesus, that they are something of myth and legend. So, I don't particularly care whether or not he actually lived as a man. It doesn't seem too important.

True, it's of no consequence. But I read a poll in my paper today that claimed only 15% of Canadians believe Jesus never existed. Of those polled, I don't know how many have looked into the matter. I'd be curious to know what percentage insist he did exist after looking into the matter.

 

[logician]

True, it's of no consequence. But I read a poll in my paper today that claimed only 15% of Canadians believe Jesus never existed. Of those polled, I don't know how many have looked into the matter. I'd be curious to know what percentage insist he did exist after looking into the matter.

The number of course, is much higher in the U.S., which has a great number of fundamentalist Christians denominations that accept his existence as a matter of faith. The U.S. really is quite backward when it comes to religion compared to Canada, Europe, and some other parts of the world.

 

[Smoke]

This is why I dislike humanity. There are so many unintelligent and ignorant people who are eager to make arbitrary dogmatic pronouncements, that even if they manage to break free from dogmatic religion they only lapse into a mindless pseudo-skepticism that's hardly any improvement at all on religion. Or, as Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

 

[Oberon]

Some historical figures become legendary. Jesus hasn't been shown to be anything but legendary. It's a distinction that you obviously are having difficulty with.

I am not the one with the problems making disctintions. I have actually read the myths and legends of ancient greece and rome (unlike you) in the original greek and latin (which you can't do). None of the mythic accounts of Herakles, Theseus, Dionysius, etc, were written within a few decades of the time in which they take place, as the gospels were.

 

[dogsgod]

This is why I dislike humanity. There are so many unintelligent and ignorant people who are eager to make arbitrary dogmatic pronouncements, that even if they manage to break free from dogmatic religion they only lapse into a mindless pseudo-skepticism that's hardly any improvement at all on religion. Or, as Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

You're just sour grapes because you don't know why you believe Jesus is historical. Your mind is mere putty in the hands of religious interpreters.

 

[dogsgod]

I am not the one with the problems making disctintions. I have actually read the myths and legends of ancient greece and rome (unlike you) in the original greek and latin (which you can't do). None of the mythic accounts of Herakles, Theseus, Dionysius, etc, were written within a few decades of the time in which they take place, as the gospels were.

So, the author of Mark has his fictional account take place a few decades prior to his writing of the story. That makes it an historical account? Brilliant.