Is Jesus God?

[Luciferi Baphomet]

No at all. This is why Jesus stated that He is the way, the truth and the life. There is truth in Christianity. Jesus came here not to confuse people but to bring peace and salvation to those who will follow Him.

Thanks

I don't really see peace at all in christianity. All I see is other christians attacking others. The worst group of them all is the westboro baptist church, those people are complete whackjobs.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't really see peace at all in christianity. All I see is other christians attacking others. The worst group of them all is the westboro baptist church, those people are complete whackjobs.

I wouldn't use the WBC as a measuring stick of Christianity in general. Lol.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I wouldn't use the WBC as a measuring stick of Christianity in general. Lol.

Christianity, Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, 7 day Adventists, etc. They are all the same. They worship the same god, jesus.

 

[Oeste]

1 Mr. Ellicot CLEARLY stated my interpretation is preferred. Meaning yours is not preferred. A synonym for "not preferred" is unacceptable. Which means incorrect. Unfortunately, Mr. Ellicot was speaking from both sides of his mouth. Once again, being politically correct. Mr. Wallace and Mr. Smith were more direct. They confirm your interpretation is unsatisfactory, meaning poor, essentially incorrect. You were incorrect to suggest that it was correct. It happens. It’s time to concede the point and move on.

I see. So if I have two hats, one red and the other blue and I say “Either hat is good for a rainy day but I prefer the red hat”, it means the blue hat is not preferred. A synonym for “not preferred” is unacceptable, which means incorrect, which means the blue hat is incorrect to wear on rainy days. If I insist either hat is fine then I am talking from both sides of my mouth and I am simply being “politically correct” about hats.

Got it James!

2. I didn't ask you a specific question. It was a rhetorical question.

No, you asked me a specific question which was rhetorical, which is quite different from asking no specific question at all. Honestly James, if you didn’t interject assertions like these into your answers, my responses would be less “wordy” and we could move on quicker, as I think you've made it very clear you would like my responses to be shorter.

You provided no explanation why your analogy is not false. Thus your false analogy stands. And that's ok. We all make them at times.

You can’t be serious James. You want me to explain why my analogies are not false? Wouldn’t that be your job, not mine, since you disagree with my analogy?

Aren’t you the person complaining about my “wordiness”? If I include documentation why a clear analogy is “not false”, you would go ballistic!!!

3. The disciples' fear invoked Jesus to calm their fears by assuring them He, at the time, is not a ghost (spirit). He did so by stating, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Jesus made a statement of assurance, not one of exclusivity. We know this is the correct context because He is not exclusively made of solid flesh and bones (1 Co 15:45 and 2 Co 3:17) .

Okay….so Jesus was a “spirit creature” with flesh and bones, assuring his disciples spirits creatures don’t have flesh and bones. That had to be quite a feat, but if such is the case, it not only makes Jesus deceptive but a liar as well. How can the Word of God say spirit creatures don’t have flesh and bones if he’s standing right smack in the middle of them as a spirit creature with flesh and bones?

And what do you mean by "He is not exclusively made of solid flesh and bones"? What other kind of flesh and bones do you think "spirit creatures" have?

4. You are thinking of our supernatural body in terms of our current physical one. Spiritually speaking, our current bodies consist of a separation between shell and spirit. We cannot transform ourselves between the two. Our supernatural body will be absent of that separation. It will have the ability to transform itself between the two states (flesh and bone shell and invisible spirit) instantaneously.

But that still doesn’t answer the question. First, it doesn’t answer the question as to why the stone was removed if Jesus rose as a spirit creature. Secondly, at the point of flesh materialization, the spirit creature is now a spirit creature of flesh and bones which Jesus specifically stated spirit creatures do not have.

Let’s look at the verses in question again:

1Cor 15:45 is never meant to be treatise or "proof text" on the manner of Jesus's resurrection, but simply what that resurrection means for the rest of us. To find out the manner of Jesus's resurrection we simply go to John 2:21:

18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.​

If everyone believed what Jesus specifically said about raising his body, we wouldn’t be having this discussion now.

5. I'm sorry to say but I've clearly demonstrated how you do not at times understand how sound logic works.

You found yourself between a rock and a hard place after charging in on this spirit creature business, and now you’re blowing off a little steam. Got it.

6. You are right. You were not clear. That's not the question you asked. The question you asked was : "What does Jesus being "sinless" have to do with it" [it meaning Jesus being deceptive] ? [emphasis mine]" see post here.

Huh? Now you’re not being clear. Can you just answer the question? You stated a sinless Jesus could not be deceptive. I’m simply asking if you think Adam and Eve existing in a sinless state made them incapable of being deceptive. I’m not asking whether one or the other ever sinned, I’m asking about their sinless state. I want to know what it is about Jesus’ sinless state that made him incapable of being deceptive when it so obviously didn’t work for Adam and Eve.

7. Boy how quickly we forget. The false analogy of a sinless Jesus and Adam which you denied but failed to address (see point 2 in this reply).

See my response immediately above, and my response to point 2 above. I don’t see any point to your “point 2” at all.

As well as the one you made earlier in the thread about a counterfeit $20 bill and the terms everlasting and eternal being similar but not equivalent, which I exposed in point 1 here. Is that terse enough for ya?

Terse yes, but correct, no. How can you say I “failed to address” a point when I addressed it in post 1845? First you tell us Jesus is a spirit creature with flesh and blood even though Jesus has just told his disciples spirit creature don’t have flesh and blood, and now you’re telling us I failed to address points when in actuality they were addressed.

I’m sensing a pattern here.

8. In our context,...

Whoa! Now that’s really interesting. You stated “our context”. Since you seem to disagree with just about everyone when it comes to context, who is “our”?

...simply asking whether you believe existing in a sinless state prevents one from ever sinning is a leading question presupposing Jesus' could have been deceptive.

Nah. It only presupposes your assertion as illogical. You stated a sinless Jesus could not be deceptive. I simply asked about Adam and Eve, who were also born sinless. My question immediately exposed the problem with your assertion, that’s all. There was nothing “deceptive” about the question itself.

Another fallacy BTW....How many is that, three so far?

Why are you tallying your fallacies? I'd much rather get questions answered then keep a scorecard.

The logical question should be, "Was Jesus being deceptive?"

C’mon James, you can do better than this! I specifically asked you questions about this spirit creature stuff because I was confident I would receive answers. Now you’re not only going to evade answering the question, you’re going to substitute a new question for mine. In other words, since you can’t answer the question I actually asked, you simply substitute it with the question you wished I asked.

Pleeeeeeaaaaase James2ko, can you just answer the question? If I wanted someone to ask questions for me, I would pull out a certain periodical someone left on my door one Saturday and turn my attention to the bottom of the page.

Since deception is a sin and Jesus whole life was sinless, the answer is no. He was not being deceptive.

Well that is good to know.

But since Jesus was not being deceptive, he couldn't possibly be telling his disciples spirit creatures don't have flesh and bones if in fact he's standing there as a spirit creature with flesh and bones.

9. I asked the question based on your statement indicating traditional Christianity believes we will be raised with our current body (flesh and blood). Which I do not believe. It is a supernatural one composed of flesh, bone, and spirit. With the ability to transition between flesh/bone and spirit.

This is not making any more sense to me than your other points.

1. Previously you stated Jesus was raised as a spirit creature. Now you state it is a supernatural one composed of flesh bone and spirit, which is the position of the traditional church. You keep going back and forth as if you're not sure one way or the other.

2. If Jesus is composed of flesh, bone and spirit, why would it need to transition between flesh, bone, and spirit? Isn't he already there???

11. Yes. A supernatural, spiritual, glorified "body" with the ability to transform from flesh and bone to spirit, and vice versa at will. Not sure why that is so difficult to understand.

I believe the original question was whether Jesus was raised as a spirit creature. If you believe he was raised with flesh, bone and spirit then the question is settled between us. If not, please let us know why the stone would be moved, and what happened to Jesus’s body…the one he said he would raise in 3 days. That's the part "...so difficult to understand".

If you think this point is too long, you've got much bigger problems than engaging in wordy dialogue.

Boy, how quickly we forget! It was you who elected yourself arbiter for all things “wordy”, remember? I simply borrowed your ruler.

 

[Yoshua]

I don't really see peace at all in christianity. All I see is other christians attacking others. The worst group of them all is the westboro baptist church, those people are complete whackjobs.

The Christianity that Jesus taught is not the church but the relationship between God and man. It is individual, and not by group or congregation but by following what He is teaching.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Christianity, Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, 7 day Adventists, etc. They are all the same. They worship the same god, jesus.

They may have the same Bible as well as the same Jesus that they are claiming, but not who Jesus was. Christianity is too broad to name them one by one.

Thanks

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

The Christianity that Jesus taught is not the church but the relationship between God and man. It is individual, and not by group or congregation but by following what He is teaching.

Thanks

Then what is up the that Westboro baptist church then? They are like a damn cult.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

They may have the same Bible as well as the same Jesus that they are claiming, but not who Jesus was. Christianity is too broad to name them one by one.

Thanks

So in each of those religions I mentioned that there are different stories of jesus?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Then what is up the that Westboro baptist church then? They are like a damn cult.

They are a cult. It's a very small church that's mostly made up of Phelps' family members. There's only about 40 members. Fred Phelps was extremely abusive towards his children and warped their minds. He actually was basically excommunicated by the group shortly before he died. Some new guy came in and basically took it over and started a sort of schism by preaching sexism (Phelps' daughter was the next in charge after Fred, so it was just a power grab), and Fred was actually booted for calling for the members to be more kind towards each other, if you can believe that.

So it's really stupid to cite the WBC as representative of Christianity. They're a fringe cult that aren't affiliated with any larger organization.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

They are a cult. It's a very small church that's mostly made up of Phelps' family members. There's only about 40 members. Fred Phelps was extremely abusive towards his children and warped their minds. He actually was basically excommunicated by the group shortly before he died. Some new guy came in and basically took it over and started a sort of schism by preaching sexism (Phelps' daughter was the next in charge after Fred, so it was just a power grab), and Fred was actually booted for calling for the members to be more kind towards each other, if you can believe that.

So it's really stupid to cite the WBC as representative of Christianity. They're a fringe cult that aren't affiliated with any larger organization.

I guess is true. I have heard of Fred Phelps before. I hardly knew anything about him.

 

[NWL]

Jesus is not Almighty God according to scripture. Scripture makes it extremely clear that Jesus was a creation of God, his first creation to be exact. If Jesus was created then he cannot be God. Three scriptures easily show this, Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:15 and Proverbs 8:22. I offer to anyone who claims otherwise to prove me wrong and show me what these scriptures do express if not Jesus creation.

(Revelation 3:14) “..These are the things that [Jesus] the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…”

(Colossians 1:15) “…[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation…”

(Proverbs 8:22) “…Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago…”

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

(Colossians 1:15) “…[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation…”

”

An invisible god? What do you mean by that?

 

[NWL]

An invisible god? What do you mean by that?

Don't you mean, "what does the Bible mean by that", they're the Bibles words, not mine.

God is a spirit, he has a spirit body as John 4:24 states. Spirits/angels/demons in the Bible are invisible, we cannot see their bodies like bodies made of flesh. Therefore God is invisible, hence the expression the expression "invisible God".

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Don't you mean, "what does the Bible mean by that", they're the Bibles words, not mine.

God is a spirit, he has a spirit body as John 4:24 states. Spirits/angels/demons in the Bible are invisible, we cannot see their bodies like bodies made of flesh. Therefore God is invisible, hence the expression the expression "invisible God".

Then why do some say that they saw god was so called brought back from the dead? The dead doesn't ever come back alive.

 

[NWL]

Then why do some say that they saw god was so called brought back from the dead? The dead doesn't ever come back alive.

If they came back to life then they obviously weren't in a good state in the first place to even be thinking rationally. If your body is in a state where you're dead/dying, then I don't think its credible to believe the thoughts of that person. What I'm trying to say is If I went to sleep today and said I saw God i'm sure you wouldn't believe me, so why believe someone whose brain is doing a million things at once to survive.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

If they came back to life then they obviously weren't in a good state in the first place to even be thinking rationally. If your body is in a state where you're dead/dying, then I don't think its credible to believe the thoughts of that person. What I'm trying to say is If I went to sleep today and said I saw God i'm sure you wouldn't believe me, so why believe someone whose brain is doing a million things at once to survive.

Unless the person was put on a lot of drugs to be able to survive. That is what I can believe.

 

[NWL]

Unless the person was put on a lot of drugs to be able to survive. That is what I can believe.

Yeah, because drugs have such a good effect on the rational thinking mind...

 

[Yoshua]

Then what is up the that Westboro baptist church then? They are like a damn cult.

Hi Priestess, not really. As I know, they don't have their leader and the church members are the only one who's running the church. The Baptist world alliance and other evangelical churches denounced their actions.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

They are a cult. It's a very small church that's mostly made up of Phelps' family members. There's only about 40 members. Fred Phelps was extremely abusive towards his children and warped their minds. He actually was basically excommunicated by the group shortly before he died. Some new guy came in and basically took it over and started a sort of schism by preaching sexism (Phelps' daughter was the next in charge after Fred, so it was just a power grab), and Fred was actually booted for calling for the members to be more kind towards each other, if you can believe that.

So it's really stupid to cite the WBC as representative of Christianity. They're a fringe cult that aren't affiliated with any larger organization.

Hi St. Frank, if that would be the case. We may say that they're cult.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

So in each of those religions I mentioned that there are different stories of jesus?

Yeah. Some of them interpreted falsely about Jesus; inconsistent and not aligned to who really Jesus was.

Thanks