Is Jesus God?

[OneThatGotAway]

I understand your point of view. I don't believe in the trinity.
My point is:
If He is God, He can come down, die for Christians, and rise up in body spirit. There is no separation between the two; hence, the trinity. God is God.
If He is not God, God gave Jesus perfection, the Son of Man, because He is His Son. Jesus said everything He "has been given is from His Father." Every person of God did not do anything of their own, they always did things through God.
So, if God sent Jesus down, made Him perfect, told Him He had a mission to die on the Cross, He did. He rose in body and in spirit to His Father. He still saves Christians.
In scripture, the former scripture suggested that He is God. In the latter, Jesus bluntly says He is not God because nothing He does He cannot do a part from His Father.
It does not matter either way. Jesus is divine with or without being the Father Himself.
To say Jesus cannot save anyone without being His Father is saying God is limited in saving unless He becomes a human to do
so.
On the flip side of the coin, if Jesus cannot save because He is His father, that is saying God is limited in how He wants to save others (either in the flesh or not)
Understand?
Here is a thread about two sides of the story (with scripture): Jesus IS God versus Jesus is NOT God. It doesn't make a difference. Jesus can save either way.

The fact is that only the Son of God came down to die for not only Christians but all of mankind. Yahweh, The God Almighty remained in heaven while Jesus was on earth preparing his redemption for mankind. Hence, no trinity existed if the son visits the earth while the Father stayed in Heaven.

It is evident that God did not give Jesus all of His power; because Jesus would not have prayed to God for help. Had Jesus received every power from Yahweh his father, then Jesus would not have done or said the following:

"And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Mark 14:36)
"Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." (Hebrew 11:19)
"But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)

If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have taken the “cup” away himself.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have raised himself up from the dead.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have known which hour of that day of his return to earth.​

To you it may not matter whether all Scriptures harmonizes together; however to the keepers (Sons of Yishrael) of the Holy Books it matters very much to the preservation of God’s truth, honor, trust and faithful to his word and salvation:

1. "I [am] the YAHWEH thy God,...Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:2-3 KJV)
2. Hear Israel: YAHWEH is our God, YAHWEH is one (Deuteronomy 6:4)
3. I am YAHWEH. That is my name! And my glory will I not give to another; neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)
4. "For I [am] YAHWEH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Ya'ocob (Jacob) are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)

It is blasphemous to preach and declare that YAHWEH "The God" (Ton Theon), "The Father" is ONE for the first 4,000 years to the world; and then (all of a sudden) force the world to change their minds from one God to three gods. This is a big slap in the face to the sons of Jacob because their strong loyalty to the truths in the Torah. This twisting of the Scriptures breeds heresy and mistrust of God as being faithful to his Word.

I say again: The Trinity doctrine is confusion and a ancient strategic plan of the Devil himself: If I can't get them to worship other gods then I will tempt them to worship the Son of God as the God Father.

 

[nothead]

Provide sources for that please.

Why don't you being a professor tell me instead who else called their God "the Father" in Jesus' time?

 

[nothead]

The first was not originally adonai but the divine name represented by the tetragrammaton. You can see it infered in many Bible by the all-caps "LORD".

True. And "adoni" is also never said of God.

 

[nothead]

The fact is that only the Son of God came down to die for not only Christians but all of mankind. Yahweh, The God Almighty remain in heaven while Jesus was on earth preparing his redemption for mankind. Hence, no trinity exist when one visit the earth while another stayed in Heaven.
It is evident that God did not give Jesus all of His power; because would not pray to God for help. Had Jesus received every power from Yahweh his father, then Jesus would not have to do the following:

"And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Mark 14:36)
"Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." (Hebrew 11:19)
"But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)

If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have taken the “cup” away himself.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have raised himself up from the dead.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have known which hour of that day of his return to earth.​

To you it may not matter whether all Scriptures harmonizes together; however to the keepers (Sons of Yishrael) of the Holy Books it matters very much to the preservation of God’s truth, honor, trust and faithful to his word and salvation:

1. "I [am] the YAHWEH thy God,...Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:2-3 KJV)
2. Hear Israel: YAHWEH is our God, YAHWEH is one (Deuteronomy 6:4)
3. I am YAHWEH. That is my name! And my glory will I not give to another; neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)
4. "For I [am] YAHWEH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Ya'ocob (Jacob) are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)

It is blasphemous to preach and declare that YAHWEH "The God" (Ton Theon), "The Father" is ONE for the first 4,000 years to the world; and then (all of a sudden) force the world to change their minds from one God to three gods. This is a big slap in the face to the sons of Jacob because their strong loyalty to the truths in the Torah. This twisting of the Scriptures breeds heresy and mistrust of God as being faithful to his Word.

I say again: The Trinity doctrine is confusion and a ancient strategic plan of the Devil himself: If I can't get them to worship other gods then I will tempt them to worship the Son of God as the God Father.

Kindred soul, bless you and yours.

 

[nothead]

And what is funny is during the Hellenistic periods the use of the tetragrammaton had almost stopped completely.

Why you call it funny? It was still considered the definitive name of God. Just too sacred to use any longer in writing and especially speech.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What are you saying? Edit: I had to reread what you said. I gave two different points of view with scripture. I know both views; so, posting scripture is just repeating whats been said.

I am not talking about the trinity. I am talking about Jesus' divinity.

My point: Jesus can save regardless if He is human made perfect by God or being God Himself.

Trinity has nothing to do with this.

The fact is that only the Son of God came down to die for not only Christians but all of mankind. Yahweh, The God Almighty remain in heaven while Jesus was on earth preparing his redemption for mankind. Hence, no trinity exist when one visit the earth while another stayed in Heaven.
It is evident that God did not give Jesus all of His power; because would not pray to God for help. Had Jesus received every power from Yahweh his father, then Jesus would not have to do the following:

"And he said, Abba, Father, all things [are] possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." (Mark 14:36)
"Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure." (Hebrew 11:19)
"But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)

If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have taken the “cup” away himself.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have raised himself up from the dead.
If Jesus received all of God’s power then he would have known which hour of that day of his return to earth.​

To you it may not matter whether all Scriptures harmonizes together; however to the keepers (Sons of Yishrael) of the Holy Books it matters very much to the preservation of God’s truth, honor, trust and faithful to his word and salvation:

1. "I [am] the YAHWEH thy God,...Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:2-3 KJV)
2. Hear Israel: YAHWEH is our God, YAHWEH is one (Deuteronomy 6:4)
3. I am YAHWEH. That is my name! And my glory will I not give to another; neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)
4. "For I [am] YAHWEH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Ya'ocob (Jacob) are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)

It is blasphemous to preach and declare that YAHWEH "The God" (Ton Theon), "The Father" is ONE for the first 4,000 years to the world; and then (all of a sudden) force the world to change their minds from one God to three gods. This is a big slap in the face to the sons of Jacob because their strong loyalty to the truths in the Torah. This twisting of the Scriptures breeds heresy and mistrust of God as being faithful to his Word.

I say again: The Trinity doctrine is confusion and a ancient strategic plan of the Devil himself: If I can't get them to worship other gods then I will tempt them to worship the Son of God as the God Father.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

And you and other apologist tend to be narrow minded and historically uneducated on how the god concept continually evolved from many civilizations and cultures previous to Israelites formation after 1200 BC. When did it actually stop evolving, is a better question?

Sometimes areas of truth requires a narrow path in order to stand against the sea of fallacies, false gods, and falsehood spewing out of many deceivers moths in the world since the day Adam and Eve confronted the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Jesus Christ himself said:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:13-15)

You and other skeptics tend to be stubbornly and ignorantly uneducated in that there exist one truth regarding The God Almighty of the Universe and the Earth. People like you come off as though you were there "in the beginning"; and that you have the scientific tools to track and map out exact paths of God's development and His creative works for mankind. And it is skeptics like you who really want the world to simply believe and trust that truth is relative and your truth is superior to that of the Holy Scriptures and Christians. When the rubber meets the road, the reality is that even your limited evidence calls for some acts of faith and trust in order to "fill in the gaps" of your "god theory".

We have Yahweh and patriarchs like Abraham, Moses, Yahshua, Samuel, David, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul to thank on how Yahweh, the God Almighty developed our understanding of his mighty works among mankind. And until someone show me a flaw in this religion; I tell them to keep reading the Holy Scriptures for understanding down through the centuries. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Even scientists know that among the trillions of DNA combinations available, a very narrow DNA combination is required for an organism to form itself normally.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

That is a great verse that shows how Israelites tried to edit out Yahweh's father EL from the text after king Josiah's reforms.
The same kind of people who factually redefined Yahweh, are the same ones who redefined the concept to include Jesus as part of the concept. Israelites evolved the Canaanite religion Yahweh started in as Els son.
later people redefined it again with islam
later people redefined it again to create mormans
The cycle rarely stops for long.

Well, apparently they failed to “rub” out Yahweh from being The EL and ELHYM because thousands of Hebrew Torah scrolls and Jewish and Christian Holy Bibles preserved Yahweh as EL, ELOAH, ELHYM to this very day. I guess it’s true of what Yahweh God Almighty said about his remnant on earth preserving the truths of Yahweh as the EL, the AELHYM:

"For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD [of hosts] shall do this." (2 Kings 19:31)
"Except YAHWEH of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, [and] we should have been like unto Gomorrah." (Isaiah 1:9)
"And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:" (Isaiah 37:31)
"The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make [them] afraid." (Zephaniah 3:13)
"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" (Romans 9:27)
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Revelations 12:17)

HalleluYah! Thank God for remnants like me. That old Dragon might catch some of us but he can’t catch us all. Yeeeha!

 

[OneThatGotAway]

Kindred soul, bless you and yours.

Yahweh and the Lord Jesus Christ bless you too brother. I'm just a poor soul seeking treasures.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

What are you saying? Edit: I had to reread what you said. I gave two different points of view with scripture. I know both views; so, posting scripture is just repeating whats been said. I am not talking about the trinity. I am talking about Jesus' divinity. My point: Jesus can save regardless if He is human made perfect by God or being God Himself.
Trinity has nothing to do with this.

I am saying that according to the Holy Scriptures, Jesus cannot be God Himself; because it is written that there is only one God not two. If Jesus is God Himself then you have two Gods; a violation of the first commandment in the Ten Commandments according to Yahweh himself. Jesus' divinity is limited to being only the Son of God. His divinity is not equal to that of Yahweh his father; because that would make him God the Father. And it is written that that God did not begot himself nor shared his name, deity and glory with anyone else. That is why I repeated those scriptures to drive home the point again. You may not be talking about the trinity; but it seems to me that you're talking about a duality (Jesus = Yahweh = God Almighty). And I already pointed out that Holy Bible recorded that Jesus needed help from God the Father to finished the plan of salvation by raising Jesus from the dead. The Son died for mankind; the Father raised his limited self up from the dead.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am saying that according to the Holy Scriptures, Jesus cannot be God Himself; because it is written that there is only one God not two. If Jesus is God Himself then you have two Gods; a violation of the first commandment in the Ten Commandments according to Yahweh himself. Jesus divinity is limited to being the Son of God. His divinity is not equal to that of Yahweh his father; because that would make him God the Father. And it is written that that God did not begot himself nor shared his name, deity and glory with anyone else. That is why I repeated those scriptures to drive home the point again. You may not be talking about the trinity; but it seems to me that you're talking about a duality (Jesus = Yahweh = God Almighty). And I already pointed out that history record that Jesus needed help from God the Father to finished the plan of salvation by raising Jesus from the dead. The Son died for mankind; the Father raised his limited self up from the dead.

What if they disagree with each other?
Why is Jesus called God in the book of Hebrews, by....the father?

 

[Kolibri]

What if they disagree with each other?
Why is Jesus called God in the book of Hebrews, by....the father?

? Citation please.

 

[Kolibri]

Ah never-mind, mistranslation of Hebrews 1:8

 

[Desert Snake]

A never-mind, mistranslation of Hebrews 1:8

How, and why, is that a mistranslation?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Okay. I understand.

My original question to everyone was 1 doesn't really matter 2 if so why? and how? (These answers should be in your own view not refuting the other person's view right or wrong--since it doesn't matter)

I am saying that according to the Holy Scriptures, Jesus cannot be God Himself; because it is written that there is only one God not two. If Jesus is God Himself then you have two Gods; a violation of the first commandment in the Ten Commandments according to Yahweh himself. Jesus' divinity is limited to being only the Son of God. His divinity is not equal to that of Yahweh his father; because that would make him God the Father. And it is written that that God did not begot himself nor shared his name, deity and glory with anyone else. That is why I repeated those scriptures to drive home the point again. You may not be talking about the trinity; but it seems to me that you're talking about a duality (Jesus = Yahweh = God Almighty). And I already pointed out that Holy Bible recorded that Jesus needed help from God the Father to finished the plan of salvation by raising Jesus from the dead. The Son died for mankind; the Father raised his limited self up from the dead.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

What if they disagree with each other? Why is Jesus called God in the book of Hebrews, by....the father?

Jesus did not disagree with his Father because it is written:
"I and [my] Father are one." John 10:30
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30)

Jesus has is own will and yet he chose to align it with his Father and not the other way around.

Jesus was a god, Moses was a god; but neither of them shared the same glory and title as Yahweh, The GOD (aka The LORD, The Kurios). Jesus the Messiah's divinity (deity) ended and was limited to the power of only the Son of God; and not to the all powerful and all knowing of Yahweh, that is, The Almighty God.

"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
" If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
"But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him."
(John 10:33-38)

Notice that Jesus said that he and others were called gods; this is a known fact. God called Moses a god before Pharaoh. It is known that many of God’s creation were called gods. Also noticed in the above scriptures that Jesus said of himself that -- “I am the Son of God”. This would have been a excellent time for him to say “I am The God Almighty, Yahweh”. However, Jesus was careful to point out that he and the Father are one; and that oneness is purpose, spirit, love, and will; much like God’s believers are one with God and Jesus. It is not written that Jesus claim to be The God or Yahweh.

The Pharisees and other Jews tried to kill Jesus several times because he claimed to be the Son of God; but never "The God". Claiming a title as the Son of God indicates some divine power from God; and that troubled the Pharisees. Besides, Jesus would not have been the sinless Savior had he taught that he is The God, that he is Yahweh. In fact, none of his disciples would have followed him; they would have been righteous in stoning Jesus to death for blasphemy.

The Apostle Paul never, ever taught or addressed Jesus Christ as The God Almighty or Yahweh. Paul wrote that Jesus is the Lord, the Son of God, and not "The LORD" (Ton Theon). Paul taught a mono-theistic religion the same as Moses and the other Biblical prophets of Yahweh.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus did not disagree with his Father because it is written:
"I and [my] Father are one." John 10:30
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30)

Jesus has is own will and yet he chose to align it with his Father and not the other way around.

Jesus was a god, Moses was a god; but neither of them shared the same glory and title as Yahweh, The GOD (aka The LORD, The Kurios). Jesus the Messiah's divinity (deity) ended and was limited to the power of only the Son of God; and not to the all powerful and all knowing of Yahweh, that is, The Almighty God.

"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
" If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"
"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
"If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
"But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him."
(John 10:33-38)

Notice that Jesus said that he and others were called gods; this is a known fact. God called Moses a god before Pharaoh. It is known that many of God’s creation were called gods. Also noticed in the above scriptures that Jesus said of himself that -- “I am the Son of God”. This would have been a excellent time for him to say “I am The God Almighty, Yahweh”. However, Jesus was careful to point out that he and the Father are one; and that oneness is purpose, spirit, love, and will; much like God’s believers are one with God and Jesus. It is not written that Jesus claim to be The God or Yahweh.

The Pharisees and other Jews tried to kill Jesus several times because he claimed to be the Son of God; but never "The God". Claiming a title as the Son of God indicates some divine power from God; and that troubled the Pharisees. Besides, Jesus would not have been the sinless Savior had he taught that he is The God, that he is Yahweh. In fact, none of his disciples would have followed him; they would have been righteous in stoning Jesus to death for blasphemy.

The Apostle Paul never, ever taught or addressed Jesus Christ as The God Almighty or Yahweh. Paul wrote that Jesus is the Lord, the Son of God, and not "The LORD" (Ton Theon). Paul taught a mono-theistic religion the same as Moses and the other Biblical prophets of Yahweh.

You didn't address Hebrews 1:8.

 

[Kolibri]

How, and why, is that a mistranslation?

Because this verse is a quote of Psalm 45:6,7 and the there is no way the psalmist was meaning that human king was God himself. Rather as 2 Chronicles 29:23 states, the Davidic kings sat on Jehovah's throne. God was their authority or their throne. It was not saying the king was God himself.

"But of the Son he says, 'God is your throne forever and ever! ...
(Hebrews 1:8, The Complete Bible: An American Translation by Smith and Goodspeed)

 

[OneThatGotAway]

You didn't address Hebrews 1:8.

I thought I did when I refer to Jesus being called a god in other scriptures. Hebrews 1:8 confirms agrees with the other scriptures that Jesus is a God; however Jesus Christ is not The God (TON THEON in Greek). In fact, the verses before verse eight mentioned Jesus' Throne was on the right hand of God:

"Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" (Hebrews 1:3)

Jesus has and never will sit on The Throne of The God (TON THEON), Yahweh's throne. Jesus' deity as a "god" will only reach as high as to the right hand side; not the very top of deity as The Father, God Almighty.

This falls in line with what Jesus said to the Pharisees when he said that he was the Son of God:
"I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] sons of the most High." Psalms 82:6

 

[OneThatGotAway]

Because this verse is a quote of Psalm 45:6,7 and the there is no way the psalmist was meaning that human king was God himself. Rather as 2 Chronicles 29:23 states, the Davidic kings sat on Jehovah's throne. God was their authority or their throne. It was not saying the king was God himself.

"But of the Son he says, 'God is your throne forever and ever! ...
(Hebrews 1:8, The Complete Bible: An American Translation by Smith and Goodspeed)

I like that and it makes more sense than the King James Version. Thank you Kolibri for the insight.