Is jesus his own father?

[gahageman]

It is true that the Bible never mentions the trinity, but the concept can easily be implied from passages.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

These versus clearly makes a distinction between Jesus, the spirit of God and the Father. Also, throughout the old and new testaments God is referred in different ways.

John 1 also clearly describes who Jesus is:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.

These versus clearly state that the Word and God a separate yet one.
Jesus himself even says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

I cannot explain how these seemingly different forms of God can be separate yet one. I do not expect to fully understand the nature of God but I am comfortable with my beliefs because how can a simple creation fully understand it's creator?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is true that the Bible never mentions the trinity, but the concept can easily be implied from passages.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
These versus clearly makes a distinction between Jesus, the spirit of God and the Father. Also, throughout the old and new testaments God is referred in different ways.
John 1 also clearly describes who Jesus is:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.
These versus clearly state that the Word and God a separate yet one.
Jesus himself even says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
I cannot explain how these seemingly different forms of God can be separate yet one. I do not expect to fully understand the nature of God but I am comfortable with my beliefs because how can a simple creation fully understand it's creator?

Yes, Jesus says I and the Father are one at John 10:30. Right before that in 'verse 29' Jesus says his 'Father is greater than all', or as Jesus says at John 14:28 that 'his Father is greater then him (Jesus)'. So in What way are they one?
Jesus prayer at John 17:11,21-23 shows by Jesus praying that his followers be one just as he and his Father are one shows Jesus was Not praying they all be God, but one in purpose, goal, unity, belief, agreement, etc.

Psalm 90:2 says God is from everlasting. God had No beginning.
John 1:1 shows Jesus was Not before the beginning.
Only God was before the beginning being everlasting to everlasting.

Although the 'same' Greek language grammar rule applies at John 1:1 and Acts 28:6 the letter 'a' was inserted at Acts but missing at John.

John (1:20 yes, Jesus was at the beginning not before the beginning .
Doesn't Rev 3:14 B say Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God?

John (1:3) as it says at Colossians (1:15,16) that Jesus who is 'firstborn' in the heavens that all created things are through Jesus and exist. Jesus was God's agent, so to speak, his spokesperson (Logos).- 1st Cor 8:6.

John (1:7) yes, John bear witness. What did John bear witness, or for the record, say at John (1:32,34) but that Jesus is the Son of God.

John also bear record or witness at John (1:49) that Nathanael believed Jesus is the Son of God.

Peter, speaking for all 12, says at John (6:69) that they, the 12. believed Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Jesus at John (10:36) said they (they Jews) said he blasphemed, Why? because Jesus said he is the Son of God.

John (11:27) Martha said Jesus is the Son of God.

Decades after being in heaven the resurrected Jesus had John record, or bear record, at Rev (2:18) that Jesus was still the Son of God. Jesus still believed he had a God at Rev (3:12).

Jesus is God's only-begotten Son. God is unbegotten and without beginning. The Son is begotten (firstborn) and did not exist from all eternity as the uncreated Father, but was created by the will of the Father. Rev 3:14 B.

 

[logician]

You shouldn't believe everything you read.

 

[Tiapan]

Doesn't this violate the law of cause and effect ie causality.
If it doesn't then one of the other axioms is wrong.

Cheers

 

[Beaudreaux]

Yes the way I understand it. That Jesus was sent by GOD as a SON for the attonement of sins. The father is different than the son. Two seperate entities.

So polytheism?

 

[Katzpur]

These versus clearly state that the Word and God a separate yet one.
Jesus himself even says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Maybe you should stop to consider that the word "one" has several different meanings. "One" does not always been a numerical quantity. It can and does often mean "united."

 

[David69]

It is true that the Bible never mentions the trinity, but the concept can easily be implied from passages.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

These versus clearly makes a distinction between Jesus, the spirit of God and the Father. Also, throughout the old and new testaments God is referred in different ways.

John 1 also clearly describes who Jesus is:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness apprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for witness, that he might bear witness of the light, that all might believe through him.

These versus clearly state that the Word and God a separate yet one.
Jesus himself even says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

I cannot explain how these seemingly different forms of God can be separate yet one. I do not expect to fully understand the nature of God but I am comfortable with my beliefs because how can a simple creation fully understand it's creator?

He also says "I am the root of David... we are one!"
and we are too :yes: and is Me and the Father so brother Jesus/root knows what we meant :yes: no one hear the promise he made to peter before this statement, because I cannot find it? so happens my brother is Peter and he too has denyed me! "sighs" and he still goes fishing on boxing day

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Maybe you should stop to consider that the word "one" has several different meanings. "One" does not always been a numerical quantity. It can and does often mean "united."

Good point above because 'one' can not only mean united, it can be one in purpose, goal, agreement, desire, work, etc.
John (17:11,21-23) Jesus prayed his followers be one as he and his Father are one, so Jesus would not have been praying they all be God.

So John (10:30) Jesus was talking about one as in united in unity, because at John (10:29) Jesus already stated that his Father is greater than all.
Jesus goes on to say at John (14:28) that his Father is greater than him [Jesus].

 

[gahageman]

Maybe you should stop to consider that the word "one" has several different meanings. "One" does not always been a numerical quantity. It can and does often mean "united."

You have a good point, but you fail to consider many other versus. take John 14:9 for example...

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?

Also would I be correct in saying that there would have been no need for the Jews to execute Christ if he did not claim ultimate deity? The Jews accepted and welcomed prophets and angels, but to claim the position of God was an abomination to them.

 

[harmony999]

one must first question, does god even exist, and if this god does exist then, why would all this these things be happening if this god knew it was going to happen?. if they say that god is all knowing then there is no point of anything happening because this god should know that its going to happen already. then a person can even ask, why would god create anything?, what would this god need to create that it did not already have? and were did it get this stuff from to create?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

one must first question, does god even exist, and if this god does exist then, why would all this these things be happening if this god knew it was going to happen?. if they say that god is all knowing then there is no point of anything happening because this god should know that its going to happen already. then a person can even ask, why would god create anything?, what would this god need to create that it did not already have? and were did it get this stuff from to create?

Where? According to Isaiah (40:26) God supplied the needed dynamic energy to start creation. Jeremiah 10:12;32:17; Psalm 104:30

What did Creator God not have after he created the heavens?
First, God created the invisible spirit realm, then God expanded his creation business to include a material or physical realm or world.

When Isaiah wrote (46:10) that God knows the end or finale that does not mean for each individual because God gifted all with free will or the ability to make up one's own mind to choose. God does not 'choose to know' what our choices will be. He is 'all knowing' in that in the end Satan will be destroyed (Heb 2:14 b), but not having a sealed number for those people who will be part of the great crowd of Rev (7:9,10,14) out of all nations, or who will be sheep-like ones of Matthew (25:32,40) because God gave judging to Christ.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Also would I be correct in saying that there would have been no need for the Jews to execute Christ if he did not claim ultimate deity? The Jews accepted and welcomed prophets and angels, but to claim the position of God was an abomination to them.

Can you show us a Scripture where Jesus said to the Jews that he was God?

John (19:7) the Jews said Jesus ought to die. Why? because Jesus made himself the Son of God.

Matthew (27:43) The Jews said, that Jesus said, that he [Jesus] is the Son of God.

Why does the resurrected heavenly Jesus still refer to himself as the Son of God at Rev 2:18?______ Why would he still believe he had a God? Rev 3:12

 

[David69]

Can you show us a Scripture where Jesus said to the Jews that he was God?

John (19:7) the Jews said Jesus ought to die. Why? because Jesus made himself the Son of God.

Matthew (27:43) The Jews said, that Jesus said, that he [Jesus] is the Son of God.

Why does the resurrected heavenly Jesus still refer to himself as the Son of God at Rev 2:18?______ Why would he still believe he had a God? Rev 3:12

Jesus should of said that he is part of God imo
we are all sons /daughters of God
Alot of Jews were the forebarers of Christianity!
Maybe if he is a part of god then maybe he is the father the son and the holy spirit.
He's also a brother!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus should of said that he is part of God imo
we are all sons /daughters of God
Alot of Jews were the forebarers of Christianity!
Maybe if he is a part of god then maybe he is the father the son and the holy spirit.
He's also a brother!

If 'all' are sons and daughters of God, then who are the people at Matthew 25:40 that are doing good, or not doing good, to Jesus 'brothers'?

 

[Muffled]

Why does Exodus 33:20, written by Moses, say No man can see God and live ?
People saw Jesus and lived.

The finite can not view the infinite without becoming infinitely diverse and such diversity would mean the end of life.

I have ansered this before in my "Is Jesus God" thread but with over 1900 posts it might take you a month to find it. God is God wherever he is. When you see God in Jesus you see God but of course not the totality of His infinity.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that God is spirt, but I also believe He is love and light. He is not one of these things to the exclusion of the others. The Greek word "pneuma" was sometimes translated as "spirit." At other times, it was translated as "life." If God is "pneuma," then "God is life." The fact that He is spirit does not mean that He has no physical form.Jesus was in the "express image of His Father's person." If His Father did not have the form of a person, Jesus, having the form of a person, could not have been in the express image of that person. I didn't say that God provided 23 chromosomes in the same way our earthly fathers provided ours, only that He was literally the Father of Jesus Christ.

God didn't "create a body for Himself." He created a body for His Only Begotten Son. The Holy Spirit did, in fact, come upon Mary, but her Son was not the Son of the Holy Spirit. He was the Son of God.


That sounds like an insult to me. I'm sorry you feel the need to insult to get your point across. But to answer your question, no, I don't need God to tell me the facts of life. Jesus Christ's conception cannot be explained by what you and I would refer to as the facts of life anyway.

I will grant you that no one knows what a spirit is but it is generally accepted that it is not a physical human being.

The word person is not used in the text. Since God is a spirit, the image must be a spirit also. However image suggests more than substance, it also suggests personal characteristics. In other words, Jesus is exactly like God in every way, because He is God in the flesh.

This is where you are muddled. The fleshly part of Jesus is not God and not in the image of God. As Jesus put it in John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

All fathers are literal. You have to define this further in order to give what you say meaning otherwise I still see you as talking about a physical Father implanting chromosomes from His own body and there is no such thing going on.

The "only begotten son" and "son of God" are only terms for God Himself born in a physical body as opposed to the Father which is God not in a physical body. Wherever He is He is still God. The concept of a separate person is not provable because it doesn't exist.

No insult intended but I may have had my tongue in cheek a bit.

On what grounds are you saying that? Do you have any proof that the facts of life were not involved? Of course there is no proof that God did not monkey around with the physical body but I can't think of any reason that He would want to and the angel wasn't saying there would be. The Athanasian creed says that He was 100 per cent human but that doesn't mean that it can be proved or disproved.

 

[Muffled]

Doesn't that mean that God put sperm into her womb without breaking her hymen. Kind of like the coin through the table trick, but with holy semen?

It could have been done that way or God could have created a single sperm within the womb or He could have had the matching DNA line up with the DNA in the egg without involving a sperm. I can't see that it matters much how He did it.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry to disappoint you, Muffled but it's the "Book of Mormon," not the "Books of Mormon." We do not treat the Book of Mormon as another Bible. There is only one Bible. Your opionion of the validity of the Book of Mormon has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the OP. Furthermore, I highly doubt you've even read the Book of Mormon. If I'm right, you are not in a position to comment one way or the other.

I have read the Book of Mormon. I do not consider it an authoritative source for answering the OP because it is a work of fiction.

 

[David69]

If 'all' are sons and daughters of God, then who are the people at Matthew 25:40 that are doing good, or not doing good, to Jesus 'brothers'?

You'l have to enlighten me on Matthew 24:40! I am not familiar with it!
Cheers!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You'l have to enlighten me on Matthew 24:40! I am not familiar with it!
Cheers!

Please notice closer because it is Matthew 25:40.
Most people do not seem to be familiar with Matt 25:40.
In a nut shell, the 'brothers' mentioned in verse 40 are Jesus spiritual brothers that are alive or living on earth at the time Jesus takes action to separate the people of earth as verses 31-33 says. Those people that are placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, are the ones that do good toward Jesus 'brothers' on earth.

Jesus referred to his disciples as: brothers. They took the lead in preaching and teaching about Jesus in the first century. The time frame or setting of Matthew 25 is for our day. So Jesus 'brothers' of our day or our time frame would be ones also taking the lead to spread the good news of God's kingdom government world wide (Matt 24:14).
How people treat those 'brothers' is how Jesus can judge on the basis of peoples reaction to the message they proclaim about God's kingdom.
Daniel 7:13,14,18; 2:44.

Those people that are at Jesus right hand of favor at that time will keep right on living or remain alive right into Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.