Is Jesus separate from the father?

[Glaurung]

It hasn't been missed for two thousand years.

You're actually right there, it's the oldest heresy. But you know what I meant.

There are also obviously Christian groups today that also recognize that God is ONE, - no trinity, - no Jesus as God.

Christian orthodoxy has always maintained that the trinity in no way compromises God's one being. We are strict monotheists regardless of how much you kick and scream that we 'just don't understand' the Scriptures. The mere existence of non-trinitarians doesn't invalidate the doctrine as held by the majority thought history.

And as has been pointed out over and over - there is no trinity doctrine in the Bible, nor does Jesus say he is God.

And so you claim, and so we reject. Saying something over and over doesn't make you right.

You seem to think that just because a word isn't explicitly spelled out, the concept isn't there. We disagree. The Church and the majority of the Christian body disagrees. But of course, only those who agree with you have a valid understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Ingledsva]

You're actually right there, it's the oldest heresy. But you know what I meant.


Christian orthodoxy has always maintained that the trinity in no way compromises God's one being. We are strict monotheists regardless of how much you kick and scream that we 'just don't understand' the Scriptures. The mere existence of non-trinitarians doesn't invalidate the doctrine as held by the majority thought history.


And so you claim, and so we reject. Saying something over and over doesn't make you right.

You seem to think that just because a word isn't explicitly spelled out, the concept isn't there. We disagree. The Church and the majority of the Christian body disagrees. But of course, only those who agree with you have a valid understanding of the Scriptures.

You can disagree all you want - religious scholars will tell you there is no trinity doctrine in the Bible.

It was made up later after Pagan contact.

*

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Jesus is a part of the Trinity. God The Father, Jesus Christ The Son, and The Holy Spirit are 3 in 1. Jesus is essentially God in the Flesh. They are three distinct person(s), but yet they are in one accord.

To answer the question NO Jesus is not the Father, because again they are 3 distinct person(s) in one accord. He IS God, but NOT the Father.

Ah, by that logic clearly 3 gods, paganism and not monotheism ...

 

[Ingledsva]

Ah, by that logic clearly 3 gods, paganism and not monotheism ...

Yep. No matter how they cut it they have three Gods in different places at the same time. In other words it says Jesus prayed to his father/God - meaning a separate God somewhere else. And they have the Holy Spirit flitting all over the place at the same time as Jesus, proclaiming him, etc.

I can't for the life of me, - understand how they get Jesus is God, or the trinity idea, from their own religious texts. They do not say such. He was a Jew = ONE God.

*

 

[Glaurung]

You can disagree all you want - religious scholars will tell you there is no trinity doctrine in the Bible.

And by religious scholars, you mean those that tell you what you want to hear.

 

[Ingledsva]

And by religious scholars, you mean those that tell you what you want to hear.

LOL! I suggest you Google it, and chose a Christian site.

They will tell you it isn't in the Bible, and then fall all over themselves trying to explain how it is real.

*

 

[Desert Snake]

LOL! I suggest you Google it, and chose a Christian site.

They will tell you it isn't in the Bible, and then fall all over themselves trying to explain how it is real.

*

You don't need the trinity doctrine to have Jesus being God. In fact, I think the doctrine is confusing. Xians are not practicing Judaism, it's a different religion. If you try to view Xianity through the lens of Judaism, it will make no sense at all. forget about the Deity argument, it won't make sense in any way.

 

[Ingledsva]

And by religious scholars, you mean those that tell you what you want to hear.

I want to know how you think three different beings active in one place at the same time are ONE God?

The Holy Spirit is there to proclaim Jesus at the baptism. AND - God speaks from Heaven! Three DIFFERENT beings active together at the same time.

Jesus prays to his Father - so a separate being - at the same time.

Jesus asks God to take the coming burden from him.

Is he skitso?

*

 

[Glaurung]

They will tell you it isn't in the Bible, and then fall all over themselves trying to explain how it is real.

I just have, they seem pretty adamant that it is in the Bible.
Trinity in the New Testament
But of course, I'm sure with your fluent ancient Greek and impeccable knowledge of Christian interpretation, you'll show us all that we just don't understand.

I want to know how you think three different beings active in one place at the same time are ONE God?

Firstly, it's three persons in one being. This is not a trivial semantic distinction. If you're going to criticise the trinity, don't strawman it.

Secondly, the how can be summed up in a single word; consubstantiality.

Consubstantiality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Consubstantial (Latin: consubstantialis) is an adjective used in LatinChristianchristology, coined by Tertullian in Against Hermogenes 44, used to translate the Greek term homoousios. "Consubstantial" describes the relationship among the Divine persons of the Christian Trinity and connotes that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are "of one being" in that the Son is "generated" ("born" or "begotten") "before all ages" or "eternally" of the Father's own being, from which the Spirit also eternally "proceeds." In Latin languages it is the term for homoousism.

The Son is begotten by the Father, from whom the Holy Spirit proceeds. Your mere incredulity is in no way shape or form an indication of incoherence. The concept itself is coherent, although the how is beyond human grasp. We can talk about God coherently, but we cannot capture God with logical categorisation.

Is he skitso?

Christ took on a full human nature for our sake. This included experiencing our dependence on (and sometimes feeling our apparent abandonment) by God. It in no way detracts from Christ's divinity.

Do you actually understand what Christians believe when we say Christ became man?

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

"Through" Jesus.

Christian--->Jesus--->Father not Christian--->Father/Jesus.

"You have to get through me to go to my Father" not "You have to go to me because I AM the Father"

It does not matter which is true. Scripture supports the former.

You're right He's not The Father , but He's God.

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

Jesus does not say he is God. - Rather a big item to leave off the list don't you think?

He prays to his Father. He asks that God that his burden be taken away, - He either isn't God, - or he is schizophrenic.

*

You keep thinking that

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

Separate in person, but one in being.


You can insist that your interpretation trumps that of Christian orthodoxy all you want. You may think you know what you're talking about, but it's really unlikely that you have a compelling point that has been mysteriously 'missed' for two-thousand years.

She's a witch or thinks she is... So I doubt she'd know anything about Christ.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

It hasn't been missed for two thousand years.

What do you think they were suppressing at the Nicene Councils? It is all there in the writings.

There are also obviously Christian groups today that also recognize that God is ONE, - no trinity, - no Jesus as God.

And as has been pointed out over and over - there is no trinity doctrine in the Bible, nor does Jesus say he is God.

He only claims to be the awaited Jewish Messiah - the Anointed = Christos.

*

I agree with all your comments. Respect.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

You keep thinking that

Frankly, there is no verse in which Jesus peace be upon him says Iam God worship Me.

 

[Glaurung]

Again that's your opinion, and that opinion will send you straight to hell.

Now, now. It's not our place to be consigning anyone to Hell. Remember, Christian love extends even to those in error.

 

[Muffled]

No, God can't be seaparated. He is one.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're right He's not The Father , but He's God.

I can see how people would see Him as God. They believe He is sinless (scripture says He did not sin), they believe He cannot be temptes (Jesus has been tempted many times), they say He is His Father (Jesus represents His Father as the Word).

Jesus was a human who had a mission given from His Father to save the nation of Isreal by uniting them with the Father by sharing the Words of His Father (Not His Own words).

If people want to call Him a God, thats fine. Many people in authority were called gods. If people want to can Him THE God/Father, that is the problem. Jesus never said nor implied He was more than Gods embassador. That doesnt change the story line. I just think that the paganism has mixed up the Jewish belief that no one human can be God. Its an insult and Im sure it would be for Jesus too.

 

[FollowerOfTheLord]

Frankly, there is no verse in which Jesus peace be upon him says Iam God worship Me.

Wrong, He stated many times.
Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen The Father. He also said He and The Father are one.

 

[Nada]

People talk about Jesus referring to the 'father', in the Scriptures, is Jesus separate from the father?

Literally separate,yes.They are two separate entities.Spiritually together,yes.

 

[Nada]

Wrong, He stated many times.
Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen The Father. He also said He and The Father are one.

Yes,Jesus does say this,but it in no way means that Jesus and God the Almighty are one,literally.It speaks of a spiritual union,not a literal one.Also,it never mentions the holy spirit in this union.