Is Jesus The Only Way To Heaven?

[painted wolf]

MY religion is all about PERSONAL relationship with god. No books, no churches, no intermediaries. You seek your place with Creator "thru faith".

Creator is alive in everything and everyone and you make the connection as you choose.

God told your people to follow one path and mine to follow another. The destination is the same.

wa:do

 

[roli]

Please don't make the mistake that only christians have this kind of relationship with their god. Taoists have chi (living force of Tao) living, moving, etc... in us. Shamans have the sacred of all alive and the great source within themselves. Etc... What makes your experience right, or accurate, and the rest wrong, or inaccurate? Have you ever had an intimate relationship with Tao? Or Pan, Zeus, Kami, Diana, etc...? Or perhaps even an intimate relationship with a tree spirit, animal spirit, guiding spirits, etc...? If not, how can you say they are wrong? I have a constant intimate relationships with the spirits, how can you accurately say I am wrong?

I'm sorry ,I had to leave town Sat, so I never finished, I was going to continue with the fact that I know there are personal spiritual encounters and experiences out there people are having every day.
I had a few intimate spiritual visitations that were not from God as I look back now,even my friend's 6yr old nephew came home from school and told his uncle (my friend) that they were practicing in class lifting of the ground ,as the 6yr old put it,

I am reading a book by a guy who spent 15 + yrs in in a certain movemnet very popular today by many that had relationships with several different spirits and he found them very encouraging, helpful,exciting, and intriguing to say the least,in the beginning.
He was involved with crysatl balls,wigi boards,saunces,calling the dead,harmless practices at the time but 15 yrs later the decption of it all led him into deeper things like levatation,to casting spells and incantations and some of his encounters were out of body experiences,entering other people's bodies, visions, visitations.
Most were spiritually dark and demonically angelic,not of God (Yahwah) as he goes on to explain ,but they were familiar spirits that looked like friends ,family,helpers, people which lured him down this path of seeking empowerment,enlightenment, destiny, wisdom,influence and truth etc.

So yes, I believe you when you say you have a god of this or that,and have had a visitation of certain other spirits ,but my question to you is are they the real thing and are they truly as they appear.
Are they for your good ,or are they after something else ,as the guy involved with this particular one was in essence,decieved,so can any of us.
Yes and of course I could be decieved into what I follow as well, but I have been on both sides of the fence and there is a difference in the end.
And many of us in our pursuits will find out someday which spirit is which,some maybe sooner then others ,but eventually we all will know what truth is and what is false

My God says, test the spirits to see that they are from God and also that our struggles are not with flesh and blood, but,principalities,powers,forces of darkness spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms ,that mask themselves as angels or ministers of light.

 

[Master Vigil]

Since I am one of those spirits, I believe I can vouch for them and say "We are here for tao's purpose. Not your good, or your evil. Only what is." I can assure you, the only evil is in your perception. You mask them.

 

[roli]

MY religion is all about PERSONAL relationship with god. No books, no churches, no intermediaries. You seek your place with Creator "thru faith".

Creator is alive in everything and everyone and you make the connection as you choose.

God told your people to follow one path and mine to follow another. The destination is the same.

wa:do

Are you saying,you become your own access to the creator,by your abilities and means,your way, kind of like Frank Sanatra song, I did it my way, I wonder if he is singing a different song now.

How can we all have a different connection to the creator,expecting that they all will lead to the same destiny.
I mean, if my God of creation says, Jesus is the only way to God the father. ( H eaven)
You say, you don't need anything to assist you to get to that place, just you.
Another says it is thru a certain list of works,do's and don't's
Another says it is thru the teachings of this man,or guru
I think it is only suggestive reasoning and wishful thinking to think we will all end up at the same place by doing our own thing, our way and although it may help to enhance one's own religious pursuit and help endorse it, it could'nt possibly satisfy a sovereign ruler.
i can't see how there is so many religions with so many different pursuits, tenents, beliefs and objectives that promote the common goal of peace and unity, yet there is still so much disharmony, dissension. Why is that? ,maybe we are not in one spirit.

Tell me, what kingdom that you know of from history or heard about that had a King with 6 billion subjects under his rule and his requirement to please him was that you all come to him in your own way,your own time,worship in your own way, serve him in your own capicity, in order to recieve an inheiritance and right to dwell within its walls.
I would'nt think there would be a purpose for his kingship,
If he had such unruly order and liberalism flowing through his kigdom there would be anarchy and kaos.
I mean who wants to be governed and ruled anyways, as opposed to independence and freedom of expression with no submission or accountability, free reign if you will.
You would think that if there is one God and 6 billion people,that the chances are good that he requires a certain few principals to be followed to please him, not have 6 billion ways to come to him
We can all have a version of a creator,our own way to come to him, but ultimately it will come down to ,was it the right way of truth,

 

[Master Vigil]

You are also assuming there is a god who needs to be pleased. Isn't it wishful thinking that your way is the only way, or the right way? And have any kingdoms ever been in the people's best interest?

 

[painted wolf]

If he had such unruly order and liberalism flowing through his kigdom there would be anarchy and kaos.

My people got allong just fine for 10,000 years such anarchy and liberalism.
You don't give Creator enough credit by saying it isn't possible.

Our Creator is not a king or a dictator.. he is our Creator, father to us, a figure to be loved and apreciated not feared and groveled to.
You can not see Creators face if yours is pressed to the ground. We stand and look up when we pray so we can see and honor Creator.

Unity of Spirit doesn't nessistate Unity of Religion. There are many shades of people, many cultures, many languages... Creator seems to value variety for there is variety in every aspect of Creation.:162:

wa:do

 

[michel]

My people got allong just fine for 10,000 years such anarchy and liberalism.
You don't give Creator enough credit by saying it isn't possible.

Our Creator is not a king or a dictator.. he is our Creator, father to us, a figure to be loved and apreciated not feared and groveled to.
You can not see Creators face if yours is pressed to the ground. We stand and look up when we pray so we can see and honor Creator.

Unity of Spirit doesn't nessistate Unity of Religion. There are many shades of people, many cultures, many languages... Creator seems to value variety for there is variety in every aspect of Creation.

wa:do

Very well said P.W; you 'echo' my own views, and that means fruball time!:biglaugh:
On another tack, I like your 'Creator seems to value variety' - which gives me 'a chance' because I sure am not the 'norm' - in any way, shape or form !!

 

[jewscout]

Funny you should ask. I've been doing an incredible amount of reading lately and coming up with some interesting questions.

First, no I do not believe God breaks his promises and yes the covenant w/the Nation of Israel will last forever. Now, that could be interpreted to mean that Jesus is the culmination of that covenant and that only by accepting Him as Messiah can the Jewish people continue their covenant.

Or it may mean that God doesn't require the Jews to believe in the Messiah because they already hold a special covenant with him (which idea would freak out many Christians).

Sorry, this is such a short rambling answer, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you and yet I seriously need to finalize my speech for the seminar tomorrow and still get up at 5 a.m. (ugh).

as to your first point Melody,
I've heard many christians say this, that jesus was the culmination of the Laws, and i really don't get what that means...can you explain that to me.

as to your second point, that is the view held by pastor Joh Hagee, his belief is that G-d made 2 blood covenants, one through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob's bloodline for the Jews, and the other through the crucifiction of Jesus, for the Gentiles.

 

[Draka]

How can we all have a different connection to the creator,expecting that they all will lead to the same destiny.

Because we are all different and therefore, perhaps the Divine, in their great and unimaginable wisdom, know that in order to reach out their love to all their children they do so to reach everyone in the ways that they would understand.

i can't see how there is so many religions with so many different pursuits, tenents, beliefs and objectives that promote the common goal of peace and unity, yet there is still so much disharmony, dissension. Why is that? ,maybe we are not in one spirit.

Perhaps because of those, like you, who are so unwilling to let bygones be bygones. Agree to disagree. Admit for once that there is a possibility that they don't know all and therefore cannot tell others that they are wrong for there is no one but the Divine who makes that decision.

And by the way...you never really did answer my previous question. So should I assume that I am right in my query? You ARE saying that someone could live a completely "sin"-free life (never do ANYONE any harm, lie, steal, or anything that the bible says is wrong to do) and because they might not accept jesus as their savior then they will be damned. Yet someone else could be a horrible person, say they believe in Jesus, say sorry in a prayer, and be accepted into your god's eternal love. If that is your belief then i am glad I do not follow your belief as well. For I cannot think of anything sadder.

 

[kreeden]

Jesus the man , I don't believe so . His teachings ? Perhaps .

 

[ch'ang]

I belinve that jesus was a really good man and taught some good lessons about how to live but the church i think corupted them and made rules and dogmas to follow so that there could what they were used to organized religion

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but my question to you is are they the real thing and are they truly as they appear.

There are many books that will recommend that you "test" any summoned spirit to discover it is the intended spirit, or some spirit who is not the intended one. Many of these books suggest you ask the spirit a question that only the intended one would know, such as a privatly shared nick-name, a favorite place, scent, food, ect., or something that no prankster spirit would be able to guess.

 

[Steve]

Jesus the man , I don't believe so . His teachings ? Perhaps .

huh??

We have all sinned, would you claim to be sinless?
We broke the law, Jesus has paid our fine. Is Jesus your saviour? Jesus loves you so much that he died for you, he took the punishment that your sins deserve.

God is a Just, Holy, Righteous, Graceful, Loving, God.
He is Just, he will make sure sin/evil is punished and he will judge sin by his Righteous standards. Our sin must be paid for and we have 2 options as to how.
1 - by us in Hell
2 - by Jesus on the Cross
It was becuase he loves us so much and by his Grace that God gave us the second option, we dont deserve it so why would you throw it back in his face? Which option will you choose?

 

[Master Vigil]

Why do you think those are the only two options? There are many options, it depends on whether you are buddhist, taoist, shinto, pagan, hindu, jew, animist, druid, wiccan, native american, etc... why are your choices the only two choices? And from learning about the other choices, the two you offered just don't cut it logically or spiritually for me.

 

[kreeden]

huh??

We have all sinned, would you claim to be sinless?
We broke the law, Jesus has paid our fine. Is Jesus your saviour? Jesus loves you so much that he died for you, he took the punishment that your sins deserve.

God is a Just, Holy, Righteous, Graceful, Loving, God.
He is Just, he will make sure sin/evil is punished and he will judge sin by his Righteous standards. Our sin must be paid for and we have 2 options as to how.
1 - by us in Hell
2 - by Jesus on the Cross
It was becuase he loves us so much and by his Grace that God gave us the second option, we dont deserve it so why would you throw it back in his face? Which option will you choose?

My turn to say " huh ?? "
Never said that I was sinless . Thought we were talking about Jesus , not God ? And thought that question was if Jesus was the " only way " or not , not if I am a Christian ?

BTW , Jesus fullfilled a covenant , as I understand it . A contract made between Abraham and God . As for Love , that is what Jesus taught , is it not ?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Which option will you choose?

I'll take box number 5, thanks.

 

[Petros]

This is another 'paradigm loop' kind of question, like other similar sounding questions modern-day US (Westnern) born Protestant leaning Christians prefer to pose. For me it's not a meaningful question ('no') but I think it nevertheless identifies an issue that we (particularly in the US) must resolve if we are to move on towards a more loving world. The heavy-handedness of any culture's primary religion (in our current case in the US - this rather unique home-grown Protestant version) should be addressed by it's population head-on and resolved internally. In my own view, this question regarding Jesus, the NT, these types of 'are you with us?' questions being asked on every schoolyard, must be addressed by each of us - in a personal, individual way if we're ever to bring peace to this violent world.
Petros

 

[The Voice of Reason]

To a large degree, I agree with Petros' post.

As an agnostic, why would I ever think that Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven (or God)? Why in the world would I think that Christianity is "more correct" than any other belief system?

TVOR

 

[jewscout]

you know what i will never understand the concept of Jesus "fulfilling" the Laws/covenant/whatever...it just doesn't compute...

 

[Pah]

you know what i will never understand the concept of Jesus "fulfilling" the Laws/covenant/whatever...it just doesn't compute...

I have to agree. When a contract is replaced, both parties abandon it. It seems that God has not abrogated the Old Covenent. There seems to be two paths to God. Christianiiy's roots still seem to honored by God.