Is Jesus The Only Way To Heaven?

[michel]

you know what i will never understand the concept of Jesus "fulfilling" the Laws/covenant/whatever...it just doesn't compute...

I don't follow the Bible literally - it is full of inconsistancies; you can't 'compute' God.

 

[Alexander]

I'm always told, by the various religious leaders at my church wanting me to be baptized, that Jesus paid for our sins. He paid our debt, our fine, in full.

The thing that doesnt add up for me is that our punishment for a life of even relative sin, or just not knowing God due to geographical inconvience, is an eternal punishment in hell. Three days is not an eternity. And that was with the weight of the whole worlds sins on his shoulders.

So how is that supposed to pay for our "debt"? Is there any scripture that deals with this?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Alexander,

Those are indeed some deep thoughts and I hope you pursue them to their conclusion.

Unfortunately, in this society of blame shifting, we ascribe our failures to God. But God is not sending anyone to hell. We choose to go on our own free will but since we refuse to accept any blame, we blame God for sending us there. He does provide a way to avoid an eternity without him, but he's not going to force you into the baptismal font, though all the angels will rejoice when you finally make that decision.

As for scriptures... consider one of the few places the Apostles kept his real words completely intact:

Matthew 27:45 From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" NIV

 

[Melody]

I'm always told, by the various religious leaders at my church wanting me to be baptized, that Jesus paid for our sins. He paid our debt, our fine, in full.

The thing that doesnt add up for me is that our punishment for a life of even relative sin, or just not knowing God due to geographical inconvience, is an eternal punishment in hell. Three days is not an eternity. And that was with the weight of the whole worlds sins on his shoulders.

So how is that supposed to pay for our "debt"? Is there any scripture that deals with this?

Alexander,
It doesn't matter what *you* think our punishment should be. It only matters what God thinks it should be. I read a book once where one of the characters would not accept Christ as her Saviour even though she knew for a fact that it was true that all her sins would be washed away. Her reasoning was that she didn't deserve it. Her sins were too many (according to her). Who are we to tell God that we do not deserve his mercy?

Christ's death was not a literal debt payment for our sins because, as Ephesians 2:5 says it is "By grace, ye are saved."

Here is a really good explanation if you're interested.

 

[Steve]

I'm always told, by the various religious leaders at my church wanting me to be baptized, that Jesus paid for our sins. He paid our debt, our fine, in full.

The thing that doesnt add up for me is that our punishment for a life of even relative sin, or just not knowing God due to geographical inconvience, is an eternal punishment in hell. Three days is not an eternity. And that was with the weight of the whole worlds sins on his shoulders.

So how is that supposed to pay for our "debt"? Is there any scripture that deals with this?

Ive thought about this too, heres how i see it.

God is the judge, if we brake his laws (sin) etc, God sets the the punishment, afterall he is the judge so he decides. He has made 2 ways that his justice can be served, 2 ways our sin can be paid for. Isnt it fair to say that God can choose how the debt we owe an be paid? Like i said earlier in this thread, 2 options are provided.
1 - by us in Hell
2 - by Jesus on the Cross

Like Melody said

It doesn't matter what *you* think our punishment should be. It only matters what God thinks it should be.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

Its his justice that must be satisfied and will be one way or the other.



However in regards to this part of Melody's post i do disagree.

Christ's death was not a literal debt payment for our sins because, as Ephesians 2:5 says it is "By grace, ye are saved."
Here is a really good explanation if you're interested.

Christs death being a literal payment dosnt excluded us being saved by grace. It was because of his grace that he made this literal payment for us.
It was a literal payment for our sins, otherwise why was he being punished? Whos sin was he there for? Yours and mine. He chose to do it because of his Grace. He didnt have to go through with it, he didnt owe it to us, he didnt have to give us a way to stand befor God with the Righteousness that is required, but he did it out of his Grace. I Praise and thank God that he did, otherwise when i stand befor him i will still have a debt owing and because God is just he would demand his justice.
It is because of Gods grace that he gave us the second option, that he litrally paid for my sin(and yours), we didnt deserve to have Jesus take our punishment, but he willingly went through the torture and laid down his own life because of his grace.
Dont you think your sin has been literally paid for? Then the debt is still owing. Thank God for what he did for you.

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6

 

[Silvanus]

How do christians explain the physical death and body of Jesus, when all throughout scripture Jesus seems to have more an illusionary appearance and body to him, that's not actually real. I personally believe it was a cloak of magical illusion, so I don't believe Jesus ever suffered or felt any pain other than emotionally. The gnostics used to say Jesus laughed when the soldiers were crucifying him, because they actually believed they were killing him

Jesus isn't the only way, how could he be with all these other religions? He's the way for SOME, and even his way has many paths, no?

 

[non-duality]

„You will recognize them by their fruits“ (not not their convictions). Also if they would be Moslems the friuts can be good. In other words: the cleanness of the heart is the most important. Here a part of the bible, unless I think the bible is also just written by human beings.

Matthew 5:8: „Blessed are the ones who have a pure heart, because they will see god.“

Can someone who has a constant sight of God be separated to God?
Too many people don't listen to her hearts, because they prefer to listen to dogmata.

The world needs people who loves unconditionally (I'm not in that state, bit it is my aim), so that others will understand the unconditional love of God. It needs to cure and to comfort people who help. It needs to listen to people this one instead of preaching. The world needs people who listens instead pf preaches.
And: "hands that help are more holy than lips that pray.“
And: „Service to man is more important than service to God, because God doen't need our service.“
Where is the difference in that by a Muslim, a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist or a Jew???

 

[abdullaah]

In my opinion, as a muslim, i believe that jesus as well as all the other prophets are ways to paradise on the condition that one follow the true messege they all brought. the main messege that God's final messenger brought is to worship non but God. and the reason is as follows. Since god is the only one who created and sustained this univers in which we live and since he is the one who owns this univers and since he is the only one who afford for all the creatures, HE DISERVED TO BE WORSHIPPED ALONE. Let's though ask what is worshipping...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wow. I can't believe this thread came back up.

 

[KirbyFan101]

He chose to do it because of his Grace.

How exactly did he -choose- to die? From my understanding, he was captured and tortured by the Jews. Isn't it possible that he simply didn't have the ability to escape in the first place?

 

[Steve]

How exactly did he -choose- to die? From my understanding, he was captured and tortured by the Jews. Isn't it possible that he simply didn't have the ability to escape in the first place?

Jesus knew all along what kind of death he was going to face, he didnt run from it but went through with it for our sake.

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."
The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. John 2:19-22
​

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" Matthew 26:52-54
​

 

[KirbyFan101]

Jesus knew all along what kind of death he was going to face, he didnt run from it but went through with it for our sake.

So then you believe in pre-destination, fate, and that we don't have free will?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus knew all along what kind of death he was going to face, he didnt run from it but went through with it for our sake.

But it is possible the Bible was written to make it seem Jesus knew he was going to die.

 

[kreeden]

Well , there is Psalm 22 which was written before the dead of Jesus . But then it could , and has been argued that the account of the dead may have been written to fullfill that passage .

But even so , the man would have to had been a fool not to know where he was headed , and I don't think anyone could honestly say that Jesus was a fool ? I think one would have a better chance of arguing the possiblity that Jesus went out of his way to fullfill the prophecies .

 

[kreeden]

you know what i will never understand the concept of Jesus "fulfilling" the Laws/covenant/whatever...it just doesn't compute...

No , it wouldn't likely make much sense for a Jew . But I believe that the idea is that Abraham made a covenant with God . Which of course is the bases for your Faith . I'm not sure of the whys and all of that , but Jesus " fullfilled " that covenant , and made another , which is symbolized by circumcision of the Spirit as to circumcision of the flesh .

Christianity grew out of Judaism . Think of it as the symbolic transformation from one to the other . { and I will likely get my butt kicked for putting it that way JS , but it is the easiest way I can think of explaining it }

 

[michel]

So then you believe in pre-destination, fate, and that we don't have free will?

Predestination, fate and free will are an other subject altogether; feel free to start a thread.......

 

[Prophet Rashad]

If you belive the Bible then its really the only conclusion you can come too after reading verses like the following,

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved Acts 4:12

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:6-7

Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:4-6


I also belive it makes sense that for us to get into heaven Christ had to suffer and die the way he did. God being Just and Holy must punish sin so couldnt let us into heaven without doing so, so either we pay for our sins in hell or Jesus does on the cross. Its the best news there is, i belive , the fact God even gave us the option to avoid his wrath and anger at sin is awsome. I dont really understand why anyone dislikes the gospel of the bible, a free gift from God for people who really dont deserve it, what stops you from excepting it?

I could not agree with you more

 

[glasgowchick]

Jesus is the only way to go...He is the way the truth and the life...He said so. :jiggy:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Jesus has a definative set of teachings. If you want into his teaching of heaven, you must enter through him. If you want another teaching of heaven, you may teach that you can enter through Jesus or anything else that you want. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, then you must be self-actualizing subjective truth. If you or someone else made it up, send it to the patent office and make some money off of it before you die. Or convince people to give you concubines and set up a harem. But don't project your view of heaven as Jesus's. He is the door to his teaching of heaven, and his teaching may be original to himself.

Let's all drink beer and dance like heathens! Legalize weed! O Baby!

 

[michel]

Jesus has a definative set of teachings. If you want into his teaching of heaven, you must enter through him. If you want another teaching of heaven, you may teach that you can enter through Jesus or anything else that you want. If it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, then you must be self-actualizing subjective truth. If you or someone else made it up, send it to the patent office and make some money off of it before you die. Or convince people to give you concubines and set up a harem. But don't project your view of heaven as Jesus's. He is the door to his teaching of heaven, and his teaching may be original to himself.

Let's all drink beer and dance like heathens! Legalize weed! O Baby!

I can understand how you are feeling, AE, the trouble is, you have highlighted the 'problem' yourself, in your quote :-

"Jesus has a definative set of teachings. If you want into his teaching of heaven, you must enter through him."

Personally, as a Christian, I agree with you; I doubt though, that a Muslim would agree; neither would a follower of Judaism.