Is Karma a force of nature or...

[Just_me_Mike]

a philosophical concept.

It can be both, but I am more interested to hear from those that think it is a force of nature, and what evidence there is to supports such a claim.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'd say it's more of a statistical concept.

 

[Riverwolf]

Cause and effect is a force of nature, is it not? Karma is simply cause and effect.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Hindu, Jain, Buddhist and Sikh philosophies the most common studied in regard to Karma all seem to suggest Karma is something specifically human, in the sense that it might be a result of our conscious motives, actions, good or bad thoughts, etc...

If this is the case, does it make it not quite universal but dependent on human consciousness.

Unlike gravity, which would exist with or without humans, do those that believe in Karma think Karma will exist with or without humans...

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Karma is more then just nature, it's the thread that holds the universe together. Karma is action, simply action, good or bad. It doesn't matter. When you do an action it automatically has some effect on someone or something around you. That is karma.

 

[Wandered Off]

It's nothing more than a mental model people use to explain events. For the most part, I find the concept to be a euphemism for "blame the victim."

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Karma exists outside of just human beings. Animals also act and create karma.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Karma exists outside of just human beings. Animals also act and create karma.

Absolutely - otherwise there wouldn't be a karma chameleon.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Someone has pointed out that Karma is nothing more than cause and effect. Since cause and effect has been tested and proven time and again, is everyone in agreement that is all Karma is?

If not, as I requested in the OP, what evidence is there that Karma is anything more than a concept akin to salvation and redemption from the cousin Abrahamic religions?

 

[Engyo]

a philosophical concept.

It can be both, but I am more interested to hear from those that think it is a force of nature, and what evidence there is to supports such a claim.

I personally think "force" is the wrong word, and rather think that 'law" or "principle" might be a better choice.

Just like the Laws of Thermodynamics describe the rules or laws that explain how matter interacts with energy, the law of karma describes how our choices and actions interact with our lives.

There are also theories regarding collective karma; how the choices of different groups of people (or other living things) have effects on that group. Think teams, or nations, etc. Simplistic example - Japan as a nation chose to attack Pearl Harbor, and as a result became the only nation to date to suffer an atomic bombing.

 

[Willamena]

Someone has pointed out that Karma is nothing more than cause and effect. Since cause and effect has been tested and proven time and again, is everyone in agreement that is all Karma is?

If not, as I requested in the OP, what evidence is there that Karma is anything more than a concept akin to salvation and redemption from the cousin Abrahamic religions?

Karma is cause and effect, but it includes all things, not just the material world.

 

[Riverwolf]

Unlike gravity, which would exist with or without humans, do those that believe in Karma think Karma will exist with or without humans...

I do.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Karma will exist without humans, yes

 

[Riverwolf]

It's nothing more than a mental model people use to explain events. For the most part, I find the concept to be a euphemism for "blame the victim."

Except the spirit of the teaching doesn't have that kind of thinking. Because Karma is made of so many strings and variables, it's really a complete waste of time to "blame the victim," considering the fact that you don't know the circumstances.

For me, it's about personal responsibility.

 

[Riverwolf]

Someone has pointed out that Karma is nothing more than cause and effect. Since cause and effect has been tested and proven time and again, is everyone in agreement that is all Karma is?

No. Some would argue that it's more than that, but when I read those arguments, I still simply see a more sophisticated way of saying "simple cause and effect."

 

[Wandered Off]

For me, it's about personal responsibility.

Do you think victims of Hitler's gas chambers had some kind of personal responsibility for their fate?

 

[Riverwolf]

There are also theories regarding collective karma; how the choices of different groups of people (or other living things) have effects on that group. Think teams, or nations, etc. Simplistic example - Japan as a nation chose to attack Pearl Harbor, and as a result became the only nation to date to suffer an atomic bombing.

Then again, I feel it's a waste of time to try and figure out how others' karmas relate, because of the simple fact that other nations have done similar things to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and not suffer an atomic bombing. (Not to mention, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was WAAAAAAAAAAAY off-balance from the bombing of a military base that wasn't even part of a US state at the time.)

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you think victims of Hitler's gas chambers had some kind of personal responsibility for their fate?

I said I don't think about that. Other peoples' karmas aren't my business to try and figure out.

When it comes to mass killings like that, anyway, I don't think about the possible bad karmas of the victims, but the horrible acts of the ones carrying it out. Whatever the karmas of the Holocaust victims was, what the Nazis did is far more important to focus on.

 

[Valjean]

Karma's both a physical phenomenon and a philosophical concept, and the physics involved would be unaffected by the existence or non-existence of people speculating about it.

Karma's not like the Abrahamic idas of sin, good & bad, or redemption. It's not about punishment or reward. It's a purely mechanical process.
Hold a hammer above your foot, release it, and your foot will be damaged -- no sin involved, no punishment, just physics.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

To say Japan was bombed as it was, is an example of Karma, forgive me for saying, but it makes Karma seem so passive an irresponsible. Just an observation.