Is loving your enemies a good thing ?

[Balthazzar]

I define enemy as one who intends you harm (malicious) or is indifferent to harming you (sociopathic), and love as the act of protecting, sharing resources, or otherwise promoting the well-being of another. Using those understandings, the answer is no. Enemies need to be avoided, not supported. The most I do for an enemy is to not retaliate unnecessarily, and I don't really do that for the enemy. I do that for myself.

I'd like to expand on this a bit:

Another poster mentioned turning the other cheek, which is another piece of scriptural advice I consider bad advice. It invites further violence.

And another scripture calls meekness blessed. Meekness is a poverty of spirit and an unwillingness to assert oneself when he should be showing some courage, confidence or fortitude.

In each of these cases, the believer must redefine words to make any of these make sense. Turning the other cheek becomes forgiving and meekness becomes humility.

Do you see a common thread running through them all? This is advice one gives to people he intends to exploit in order to have them stand down and accept it. This is what an enemy tells you to do and be. This is what the Sermon on the Mount was about. Be longsuffering the exploited are told, for your reward will be great and will come later, but not if you rise up. The appeal of such a religion to a person like Constantine becomes immediately apparent.

Christianity describes itself as a religion of love, but I see it as a religion of submission. It describes its god as loving, just, and merciful, but in the end, you obey its commandments or burn. There is no love, justice, or mercy in that - just authoritarianism and severe punishment incommensurate with any alleged sin and with no hope of appeal or parole.

This has been my struggle and for many years. I have gone so far as to call it teaching victim mentality as an honorable thing and by doing so, teaching predators that creating victims is not only warranted but rewarding for the victims. The only way I could ever stay true to turning the cheek was to acknowledge a need for temperance and self-control, while building up a beast inside myself. I don't have a victim mentality. At this point, I'm the predator, even if unable to win the fight on my own. It's the duration and endurance, the illumination in the effort to remain peaceful and the understanding the just nature behind an honest stand against an enemy.

Hebrews 12 sheds a little light on the practice itself and the training involved.

 

[crossfire]

Turning the other cheek means don't fall for a taunt. A slap is a taunt.

 

[PureX]

This has been my struggle and for many years. I have gone so far as to call it teaching victim mentality as an honorable thing and by doing so, teaching predators that creating victims is not only warranted but rewarding for the victims. The only way I could ever stay true to turning the cheek was to acknowledge a need for temperance and self-control, while building up a beast inside myself. I don't have a victim mentality. At this point, I'm the predator, even if unable to win the fight on my own. It's the duration and endurance, the illumination in the effort to remain peaceful and the understanding the just nature behind an honest stand against an enemy.

Hebrews 12 sheds a little light on the practice itself and the training involved.

I think the only way to let go of that poison is to forgive whomever poisoned you.

That does not mean that you have to let them continue doing it, however. In fact, real forgiveness requires that you do NOT do that. It requires that you acknowledge what was done to you, AND what you might have done to encourage it, and take a stand to end it.

You forgive them, and you forgive yourself, and then you declare an end to it. Done! Finite! That means no more being the victim. And no need for vengeance or retribution. Forgiveness does not mean repeating the cycle of abuse. It means moving on from it.

 

[Balthazzar]

I think the only way to let go of that poison is to forgive whomever poisoned you.

That does not mean that you have to let them continue doing it, however. In fact, real forgiveness requires that you do NOT do that. It requires that you acknowledge what was done to you, AND what you might have done to encourage it, and take a stand to end it.

You forgive them, and you forgive yourself, and then you declare an end to it. Done! Finite! That means no more being the victim. And no need for vengeance or retribution. Forgiveness does not mean repeating the cycle of abuse. It means moving on from it.

On one hand I can relate, on the other I see value in the venom. Peaceful intent is peaceful intent, discipline is discipline and training ourselves through hardship with aim to remain peaceful until unable, seems appropriate for conduct and for justification. The more time spent making peace, aiming for peace, and living in peace, the better able we become to continue in that type of conduct. This does not negate, nor reject or deny the very real presence of anger, hate, and the resolve associated with injustices and how we choose to endure until unable to contain our own hostilities.

I don't break often and when I do break things get broken. That has been my past. I avoid people and situations that are prone to work my hostilities up beyond my capacity to contain what's inside of me. The resolve becomes about something greater than any effort made against an enemy. It becomes about becoming more capable, more skilled, better equipped, and more patient and disciplined in personal conduct. It's like forging a sword. It's the hard quench that becomes dangerous. We need the tempering to ensure structural integrity, and this takes a while to develop.

I'm not Thor about it, either ... but I am sure his anvil is capable for the making.

 

[PureX]

On one hand I can relate, on the other I see value in the venom.

A lot of people feel that way ... mostly men. But I personally never saw a need for it. Also, this 'venom' as I understand it only tends to confuse my thinking and blind my reason. I just become reactionary instead of thoughtfully responsive.

Peaceful intent is peaceful intent, discipline is discipline and training ourselves through hardship with aim to remain peaceful until unable, seems appropriate for conduct and for justification. The more time spent making peace, aiming for peace, and living in peace, the better able we become to continue in that type of conduct.

This is a very wise and astute observation that a lot of folks overlook. Life is "practice" even when it's unconscious or unintended. Every decision we make in life makes it that much easier to make that or a similar decision, again. It's how @$$-***** become @$$-*****. No one sets out in life to become an @$$-****, but decision after decision, and choice after choice ... all made based on selfishness and resentment and greed, and so on, and ... wallah! ... you end up an @$$-****.

This does not negate, nor reject or deny the very real presence of anger, hate, and the resolve associated with injustices and how we choose to endure until unable to contain our own hostilities.

Those we have to work on within ourselves. Practice at letting them go, or at least at not acting on them toward ourselves or others.

I don't break often and when I do break things get broken. That has been my past. I avoid people and situations that are prone to work my hostilities up beyond my capacity to contain what's inside of me. The resolve becomes about something greater than any effort made against an enemy. It becomes about becoming more capable, more skilled, better equipped, and more patient and disciplined in personal conduct. It's like forging a sword. It's the hard quench that becomes dangerous. We need the tempering to ensure structural integrity, and this takes a while to develop.

I'm not Thor about it, either ... but I am sure his anvil is capable for the making.

The greatest 'heroes' I have met in my life are those who have fought that battle within, and overcome it. My Dad was one. Had a terrible childhood. But eventually became a man that literally everyone was happy to encounter. He somehow managed to mitigate all that poison in him, so that it never got passed on to anyone else. And amazing feat, if you ask me. Especially when so many victims of abuse grow up to become abusive.

 

[Balthazzar]

A lot of people feel that way ... mostly men. But I personally never saw a need for it. Also, this 'venom' as I understand it only tends to confuse my thinking and blind my reason. I just become reactionary instead of thoughtfully responsive.

This is a very wise and astute observation that a lot of folks overlook. Life is "practice" even when it's unconscious or unintended. Every decision we make in life makes it that much easier to make that or a similar decision, again. It's how @$$-***** become @$$-*****. No one sets out in life to become an @$$-****, but decision after decision, and choice after choice ... all made based on selfishness and resentment and greed, and so on, and ... wallah! ... you end up an @$$-****.

Those we have to work on within ourselves. Practice at letting them go, or at least at not acting on them toward ourselves or others.

The greatest 'heroes' I have met in my life are those who have fought that battle within, and overcome it. My Dad was one. Had a terrible childhood. But eventually became a man that literally everyone was happy to encounter. He somehow managed to mitigate all that poison in him, so that it never got passed on to anyone else. And amazing feat, if you ask me. Especially when so many victims of abuse grow up to become abusive.

Sometimes the venom is what motivates the need to acknowledge a need to check myself. It's not constant, but it happens ... the need to check myself. I've noticed something happening in my country. The divisive nature of comment and action, seemingly aimed to do just that ... Divide us. It makes us weak as a nation. With our global threats, I get angry at the divisiveness understanding what it might mean for our security as citizens who may one day be required to defend ourselves and our communities. The venom is also very dangerous, but powerful. It's the pressures of life and our hardships that I equate to the hammer of God forming us in-between the anvil of life reality, shaping us into what we are to become.


I find great value in this, but I likewise cannot deny the clear and present danger associated with the process itself. For this reason, I acknowledge the forge, the hammer, and the anvil understanding that I'm being shaped into who I am required to become as a man. This helps me in the tempering by being mindful of the process itself. I can be a loose cannon, but not typically. It takes a great deal of influence over a decent span of time before I truly break. I've been tested. This was after a few weeks of increasing pressure and a need for breathing room. I bled that day and no one else was ever in risk of being harmed ... my resolve to remain peaceful. Self-inflicted, I should add.

It wasn't the first time, and it may not be the last. The first had a knife stuck in my leg an inch and a half deep. I bled like a stuck pig that day. I don't like it, it's impossible to enjoy or find comfort in, particularly when the pressure has some longevity and continues to increase, but if I'm able to make it through without harming myself or anyone else, I should be much better equipped from the experience. I stay busy mostly.

The venom is the onslaught of undue pressure, adding to the jaded spirit I obtained from a life apart from those I love most. Helplessness is not a good feeling, uncertainty is tormenting, and missing out on watching my son become a man has my resolve as the highest priority. I intend to make it through this intact and to end up a better man for it. The silver lining associated with being forged by fire.

 

[Revoltingest]

Love your enemy?
Bad idea.

Consider your enemy.
Primary option: Plan for peace.
Secondary option: Plan for war.
Choose the best path.

 

[Balthazzar]

Love your enemy?
Bad idea.

Consider your enemy.
Primary option: Plan for peace.
Secondary option: Plan for war.
Choose the best path.

I've been told that I'm too nice.

It has been suggested that I care too much.

This is why I get so angry and upset with some people.

It has occurred to me that if I am ever required to hurt anyone, I want it to hurt me to do so.

I'm hurt anyway, but to hurt someone while caring about them, whether friend or foe and desiring peace between us, that would hurt so much more.

I'll continue this path because for some reason this path makes sense to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've been told that I'm too nice.

It has been suggested that I care too much.

This is why I get so angry and upset with some people.

It has occurred to me that if I am ever required to hurt anyone, I want it to hurt me to do so.

I'm hurt anyway, but to hurt someone while caring about them, whether friend or foe and desiring peace between us, that would hurt so much more.

I'll continue this path because for some reason this path makes sense to me.

Caring can be carried too far.

 

[Balthazzar]

Caring can be carried too far.

I agree, but I still resist a violent stand if I'm able. It is in the caring that I have most self-control and temperance. Being mindful of the need to remain peaceful helps me maintain peaceful relations. If I'm unable to remain peaceful, then I've broken at that point and that's never good, so I always aim for peace. To this day, I've never thrown a punch without gloves. I've never harmed anyone out of anger intentionally, and although I've been in a few mild altercations, no one has come out of them all that injured. I am a peace aiming man. Peaceful might be misleading. I do effort myself to make peace. It's not always possible and with that would come my tragedy. I have looked at the world, at our enemies abroad, and the nature of this world's conflicts, and I don't see a way for us to not end up involved. I intend to wait for that day.

 

[PureX]

I'll continue this path because for some reason this path makes sense to me.

This is where the aid of a professions can be incredibly useful. Because one of the things that the poison of abuse does to us is cause us to think in self-destructive ways that "make sense to us".

I had a friend years ago that said this to me about the emotional and physical abuse he'd suffered as a kid ... " they spoon fed me a daily dose of hateful $h*t until I learned to hold the spoon, myself. Then I just kept on eating it." And as weird as this sounds, it is VERY common among those who have suffered abuse. What you call "caring too much" could be your way of continuing that "righteous anger" that you have come the rely on as being "normal", and "good". When it is in fact just the same old poison wearing a different mask.

 

[blü 2]

And what exactly is loving your enemies ? Is it letting them hurt and kill you and others ? Or Is this a bad teaching ? Or am I looking at this wrong ?

"Love your enemies" is not advice that I'd give anyone. Perhaps the most practical translation of it would be, "Don't hold grudges if you can reasonably avoid it".

 

[Balthazzar]

This is where the aid of a professions can be incredibly useful. Because one of the things that the poison of abuse does to us is cause us to think in self-destructive ways that "make sense to us".

I had a friend years ago that said this to me about the emotional and physical abuse he'd suffered as a kid ... " they spoon fed me a daily dose of hateful $h*t until I learned to hold the spoon, myself. Then I just kept on eating it." And as weird as this sounds, it is VERY common among those who have suffered abuse. What you call "caring too much" could be your way of continuing that "righteous anger" that you have come the rely on as being "normal", and "good". When it is in fact just the same old poison wearing a different mask.

No, but it does empower me to care. Betrayal hurts, but it can also be empowering. It's a spiritual workout and people typically show their character. This helps me determine how I choose my friends. I don't have many. I'm more of a soloist. We know people by their fruits, namely social interaction and conduct. It's difficult to trust people who have been known to betray their friends. Yeah, so ... sometimes we're in situations where we have fewer options, and we end up being required to endure things we ought not need to. I'm always working to avoid these situations and to get away from them. I anticipate a woodland journey somewhere like the Appalachia's, 30 to 50 miles in the back woods and just working my own issues out, and maybe developing a more able skill set.

 

[teage]

And what exactly is loving your enemies ? Is it letting them hurt and kill you and others ? Or Is this a bad teaching ? Or am I looking at this wrong ?

Loving them doesn't mean you have to take their crap.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Turning the other cheek means don't fall for a taunt. A slap is a taunt.

Is it?

I see it as related to what Jesus says earlier in the speech:

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way."

IOW, take as many slaps as you can, knowing that in the long run, the net impact of each slap will be to your benefit.

 

[Martin]

I tend to avoid them.

 

[беспокойный путешественни]

How can anyone love a paedophile, a rapist, a sex trafficker etc

Unconditional love, the only true kind of love, does not care about the loved person's weird hobbies.

 

[Balthazzar]

Unconditional love, the only true kind of love, does not care about the loved person's weird hobbies.

That's not even remotely true ... Unconditional love would equate to being a friend and making efforts to prevent that type of disaster. There's no love in allowing that to happen when options are available to prevent it. How does prison sound? I hear it's not so grand, man. We'll keep the kids away from you and our eyes open, you wouldn't enjoy prison, the kids would not approve of your type of play, nor do we and there's too many people more than willing to dig a hole with your name associated. We'll do what we can to keep you out of trouble and the kids safe.

 

[crossfire]

Is it?

I see it as related to what Jesus says earlier in the speech:

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way."

IOW, take as many slaps as you can, knowing that in the long run, the net impact of each slap will be to your benefit.

A slap is still a taunt, no?

 

[Revoltingest]

Loving them doesn't mean you have to take their crap.

But love does tend towards accepting crap.