teage
Member
If my enemy tries to kill me, then I shall kill him, in a loving way, quick and painless.
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Is loving your enemies a good thing ?
- Thread starter Massimo2002
- Start date
Probably depends on the circumstances. I do think it's questionable to say that the intended message of the passage is "don't fall for a taunt."
Why would him trying to kill you cause you concern? What do you have to fear from death?
(Approaching this from the presumed mindset of the audience of the Gospel passage)
I prefer efficiency.
teage
Member
Life is a gift from God and should be protected. Even if you don't believe in God, the odds we are even here in the first place are astronomical.
If everything is ultimately from God, then your potential murder is also a gift from God.
And it sounds like you disagree with the larger messages of the Sermon on the Mount. There are lots of verses in there to the effect of "be happy when you're persecuted" and "don't worry about your physical needs."
Oh, I understand your position from an atheistic perspective. What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to make sense in a Christian context.
teage
Member
Oh I'm Christian alright, just not like most .
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The enemies, spoken of, are the enemies of you own household; enemies in your own mind. The Trump derangement syndrome is not based on Trump personally attacking you, or nuking the world, starting a world war like Hitler, talking away Social Security from old people, etc., but rather is based on fake news and CIA mind games; scapegoating. While letting it get to you and in you, is not healthy. Turn the other cheek, means not getting sucked into creating an enemy in your mind, by forgiving and forgetting; be rational.
Politics, in general, tends to do this, with each side, seeing the other side in terms of clichés and stereotypes. People get lumped. It is not a real or tangible enemy; it is in your household or in your own mind. Being on the opposite team can override common sense. Turn the other cheek is about be rational so you can see clear and forgive what was never there.
I remember as child, many people were more prejudice; ethnicity or race. Some would just hate you, if you were part of the team they did not like. The younger people; love generation, were evolving and did no what to hate based on stereotypes and old grudges. Instead we would meet the person and judge by their content of character. Often you find out the enemy, was in your own mind; group think, and not standing over there; turn the other cheek, and discover the nice person you just met.
If your fight the invisible enemy of your mind, you may do atrocity; ends justify means, and become a real enemy; assassination attempt. That action did not have anything to do with any direct cause and effect, beyond an imaginary enemy of his mind. It may have been planted there by someone, and he chased a windmill.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Unconditional love is deserved upon being someone of spiritual worth. It's not meant for some rejectable offender.
True love is grounded in the virtues.
IMO, if a person views another as their enemy, they probably don't love them as much as they might think.
I think this is precisely the attitude that Jesus argues against in Matthew 5:43-48. If you only love someone who treats you well, this isn't to your credit, since anyone can love someone when it serves their self-interest.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Self interest isn't the primary motives of the virtues
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
What I said has no attitude of self interest. You read from me what was not there.
As I see virtues they are about selflessness.
If you think you can love those whom are dead set against your well being and existence go ahead. I haven't seen anyone who can do it.
If you think you can love those who commit atrocity to others. As I see it that's a bad thing to do.
Massimo2002
Active Member
You are mostly wrong the enemies that I face are real people and that include strangers and my parents not invisible made up people.
It makes sense within a Christian framework as the highest good in Christianity is for a person to experience salvation, which involves repentance from wrong doing, including holding enmity towards others. So I suppose by praying for them, you are being the better person by interceding for their positive transformation and if that happens, they won't be your enemy anymore. But without context, it can be very bad advice.
Loving your enemies does not mean letting them hurt or kill anyone.
Loving your enemies means you should recognize that they are human beings with human rights and you should treat them as humans with consideration and compassion especially if they are suffering (without letting them hurt anyone).
I'm not reading any particular intent or attitude from you. I'm saying that only loving those who act well is consistent with selfish motives.
It's not about what I can or can't do. I'm pointing out the context of what's being asked.
I'm also pointing out that - by definition - the conditions you're describing are incompatible with unconditional love.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I'm talking about character traits and not behavior.
Those that possess virtuous character traits deserve unconditional love because they do not do things of an evil nature. It's evil that creates conditions whereas the virtuous need not worry about conditions.
Lacking evil qualities, there's no need to conditionalize love.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
That is a different type of enemy. I am sorry for that, since I do not have any tangible enemies. A real danger or threat is different from an imaginary or conditioned enemy, like a prejudice. For example, the idea of Reparations is an example of an enemy of one's own mind. Why do the people in the present, need to pay for something they did not do simple by skin color? And why do the imaginary victims of the present, need to be compensated for the real victims of the past? This may feel real, to the irrational, but it is a reality disconnect causes the imaginary victim to become a real predator; real time predator. That is different from a mugger stealing your wallet; direct data. One is real and other is mostly imaginary; time warp.
The entire DNC victim platform is, based on creating the enemies of the mind; all white males are evil unless you vote Democrat. Turn the other cheek, is about reality check, so you can judge each person as an individual. Just that action alone; mental checkup, breaks down lots of wall. Criminal predators also have their enemies of the mind and lash out. They do not know you, but will stick it to you, since you are a type of justifiable target in their mind.
In the Middle East, that clan war. from thousands years ago, is still in effect. This recycled hate is reacted upon, in real time reality, so the windmill of the mind, now makes it seem like it is part of the now; time warping.
At the time of Jesus, people were clannish and each clan had its own secret handshake. Outsiders were not always welcome, based on the security needs of the clan; customs. If you liked pork, that alone was reason enough to hate or not trust you. Jesus, at that time, was not trying to reach just the Jews, but go beyond that. But to do that, he had to break down the mental walls that divide people; enemies of their minds, based on conditioned prejudice and place it by teaching to love your neighbor. To love your neighbor you need to known them and not just judge before knowing them as people.
There is a thing in Psychology called self actualization. It happens when you get past all that projection and imaginary garbage.
I think it is good to love your enemies. Especially if I become your enemy, for some reason.
So, you first.
Anyway, to be fair, loving your enemies does not entail letting them do what they want. If you had been a dissenter in the Middle Age, you would have been burned at the stake, not because they hated you, but because they loved you,
So, when applied to Christianity in general, being loved by Christians is not indicative of being physically safe.
Ciao
- viole