Is man the only intelligent life form in the universe?

[averageJOE]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

This is all based on a single assumtion. You are assuming that intelligent beings in other solar systems have the same desires and goals as humans. Your assuming that these intelligent beings want to look for other beings. However, that is a human desire.

Anyways, what if the reason they haven't reveled themselves is because they are watching us from a distance. What if this life on earth is an artificial creation by these intelligent beings to see how long "life" will last before dying off.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Both equally likely? One is a primitive, baseless, wishful idea, and the other is based on facts: intelligent life has already arisen on this planet, similar planets do exist, and there are trillions of planets.

i was making a slightly sarcastic concession in order to take the reader of hir guard. the point i was making was that evidence isn't even the issue - it's application of belief. and that it's scientifically responsible to rule anything out entirely, only to withhold judgment and hang no hats on fragile theories before fortifying them.

 

[Meow Mix]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

This is actually going to be a response to several of your posts that I've seen in this thread.

First of all, you are making a few incorrect assumptions:

1) Namely, that another intelligent civilization would be detectable to us via EMR emissions. It's actually very unlikely for this to be the case, since EMR emissions are a terribly inefficient way to communicate -- most of the energy put into the emissions are dissipated in 360 degrees in three dimensions throughout space.

In fact, here on Earth some of our advanced civilizations have already moved away from blatant EMR emissions with the switch to digital TV. Given enough time, the whole planet may go EMR silent as people rely on things like the internet rather than pumping out EMR signals, for instance.

2) There also appears to be the assumption that an advanced civilization would want to be discovered. Encountering an advanced civilization is a dangerous business; history suggests that the more advanced civilization in an encounter tends to consume the other one. Since the time frames in the universe offer so much variety (civilizations can be only a few thousand years old, like ours -- up to millions, ostensibly even billions of years old) then there's always the possibility of that "bigger and badder" civilization out there -- as Qui-gon says in that awful star wars movie, "There's always a bigger fish." Smart civilizations may lay low on purpose.

3) We don't have the technology to really search the sheer vastness of our galaxy alone, let alone others -- something like less than 3% of the sky is covered at any time, and not in too much detail. Not only that, but we have to find potential extraterrestrials in time as well as space, and likewise for them to find us.

In short, attempting to find another civilization in space in the brief time that we've even been looking (and half-heartedly, at that) is sort of like trying to find a single ant in the entirety of a football stadium (parking lot included) in 5 seconds -- it just isn't feasible. I'm not surprised at all that we haven't found anything yet; but I think it's pretty likely that there is something, if not someone, out there.

 

[Richard Hayman]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

The difference between other planets, life and god is that only 2 of them exist.

We have life here on Earth, so it's proof of concept . No we have a universe full of trillions and trillions of planets and most of them even the ones here in our solar system contain the raw materials. They just aren't positioned right or had catastrophic happenings.

Mathematically not only is life a statistical probability but a statistical certainty. As for how common it may be... That is up for speculation, but we have already found hundreds of solar systems some of which contain planets not all that different from our own.

We should also be on the look out for life elsewhere within our system as well. Mars along with the moons Europa (Jupiter) and Titan (Saturn) may all contain life. While I can't say it is out there, the only way to find out is to look for it. I would like to think there is based on numbers, but I could be wrong. I doubt I'm wrong, but I could be.

At least when it comes to alien life on another world we have the Earth as proof that life does at least exist in our universe.

 

[Zadok]

It is true that I have made some assumptions – but these are scientific assumptions. Apparently many posters here are not aware of the extent of detection that has been utilized. We have been able to integrate entire arrays of radio telescopes throughout the world making this detecting method the most penetrating and accurate means to probe space. Even a slight signal from a far off planet would be detected. But there is more.

The most consistent and available energy option in the universe is Hydrogen fusion reaction. Every star we know to exist begins its life with this source of energy. A controlled sustained nuclear fusion reaction creates an unmistakable beacon point to any civilization advanced enough to do such a thing. Mostly this is what scientists have been looking for. This particular beacon would be even easier to detect with methods devised than seeing a star the mass of our sun from the same distance because we can filters for this particular source.

But all this is not really the point I want to make with this thread. My simple point is that one of the primary criticisms of this forum towards G-d and the primary reason most posters give for not believing in G-d – is because there is no evidence of G-d’s existence. I contend this is not really a valid argument – Because these same individuals arguing for some absolute proof of G-d will accept the possibility that somewhere in the universe there is intelligent life similar to man.

Go back and now look at the arguments. Some argue that the intelligent life may not be similar to man – which is completely off topic for this thread discussion. The question concerns intelligent life similar to man following the same type of evolution. If life is not similar to man following some other evolutionary path to higher intelligence – why is man following the different and less efficient type of evolution – why even suggest such a thing without some type of evidence. Are you kidding me – we will resort to wild speculation and nothing concrete to make excuse for opinions until we encounter someone that believes in G-d then we forget all our excuses and make fun of a religious person for almost the exact same arguments? Why is that?

I am not arguing for or against G-d with this thread nor am I arguing for or against evolving intelligence in the universe similar to man (both of which I personally believe). I am just pointing out a very big inconsistency from many that say they do not believe in or accept the possibility of G-d but they believe in or accept the possibility of intelligence similar to man that can evolve all over the universe - even though there is not one bit of evidence when we have looked to find such evidence.

Zadok

 

[PolyHedral]

A controlled sustained nuclear fusion reaction creates an unmistakable beacon point to any civilization advanced enough to do such a thing.

Except if it is smaller than a planet.

why is man following the different and less efficient type of evolution

Talking about the efficiency of evolution is not meaningful.

 

[CarlinKnew]

I am just pointing out a very big inconsistency from many that say they do not believe in or accept the possibility of G-d but they believe in or accept the possibility of intelligence similar to man that can evolve all over the universe...

It is consistent. Look:

Why should I accept the possibility of intelligent life outside of Earth?
-Evidence that complex life can arise from inanimate matter under the right conditions.
-Evidence that planets similar to Earth exist which might provide the above conditions.
-Evidence that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in the universe.

Why should I accept the possibility of "G-d"?
-Ancient fairy tales.

...even though there is not one bit of evidence when we have looked to find such evidence.

I don't think you understand the scope of the universe.

 

[Richard Hayman]

It is true that I have made some assumptions – but these are scientific assumptions. Apparently many posters here are not aware of the extent of detection that has been utilized. We have been able to integrate entire arrays of radio telescopes throughout the world making this detecting method the most penetrating and accurate means to probe space. Even a slight signal from a far off planet would be detected. But there is more.

The most consistent and available energy option in the universe is Hydrogen fusion reaction. Every star we know to exist begins its life with this source of energy. A controlled sustained nuclear fusion reaction creates an unmistakable beacon point to any civilization advanced enough to do such a thing. Mostly this is what scientists have been looking for. This particular beacon would be even easier to detect with methods devised than seeing a star the mass of our sun from the same distance because we can filters for this particular source.

But all this is not really the point I want to make with this thread. My simple point is that one of the primary criticisms of this forum towards G-d and the primary reason most posters give for not believing in G-d – is because there is no evidence of G-d’s existence. I contend this is not really a valid argument – Because these same individuals arguing for some absolute proof of G-d will accept the possibility that somewhere in the universe there is intelligent life similar to man.

Go back and now look at the arguments. Some argue that the intelligent life may not be similar to man – which is completely off topic for this thread discussion. The question concerns intelligent life similar to man following the same type of evolution. If life is not similar to man following some other evolutionary path to higher intelligence – why is man following the different and less efficient type of evolution – why even suggest such a thing without some type of evidence. Are you kidding me – we will resort to wild speculation and nothing concrete to make excuse for opinions until we encounter someone that believes in G-d then we forget all our excuses and make fun of a religious person for almost the exact same arguments? Why is that?

I am not arguing for or against G-d with this thread nor am I arguing for or against evolving intelligence in the universe similar to man (both of which I personally believe). I am just pointing out a very big inconsistency from many that say they do not believe in or accept the possibility of G-d but they believe in or accept the possibility of intelligence similar to man that can evolve all over the universe - even though there is not one bit of evidence when we have looked to find such evidence.

Zadok

Given how different we are from other species anatomically and how different they are from one another.... I think it is safe to assume that ET will on the physical side will likely not be anything like we are as primates are indigenous to Earth.

However it is likely that any sufficiently advanced civilization like our will share certain traits. Traits like altruism for example are essential for the survival of species. I also argue as well that the most advanced life forms have long shed their biology in exchange for more efficient technological ones to survive the harshness of deep space.

As for radio signals.... No other planets around other stars will be watching Star Trek or listening to H.G. Wells War of the Worlds broadcast. Nor will we ever receive whatever planetary communications they make like ours. This is due to signal degradation caused by cosmic back ground radiation.

 

[Meow Mix]

It is true that I have made some assumptions – but these are scientific assumptions. Apparently many posters here are not aware of the extent of detection that has been utilized. We have been able to integrate entire arrays of radio telescopes throughout the world making this detecting method the most penetrating and accurate means to probe space. Even a slight signal from a far off planet would be detected. But there is more.

That is absolutely false. As I pointed out, less than (unless severe changes have been made in the last 5 years) 3% of the sky is covered at any given time. Even so, we have received some potential candidates for extraterrestrial signal origin (see the "WOW" signal, so called for the interpreter writing the word "wow!" next to the printout) and they demonstrate just how difficult it is to receive signals even if you have your satellite dish pointed right at it: we still can't narrow down exactly where the signal came from and it was several orders of magnitude higher than the background noise (hence the "wow!").

So, no -- we can't do anything even close to what you've described above. Our seeing eyes, in terms of catching signals from other civilizations, are practically blind.

The most consistent and available energy option in the universe is Hydrogen fusion reaction.

I'd say antimatter annihilation would be better considering its near 100% efficiency, but let's run with fusion for now.

Every star we know to exist begins its life with this source of energy. A controlled sustained nuclear fusion reaction creates an unmistakable beacon point to any civilization advanced enough to do such a thing.

We've been performing thermonuclear fusion for a decade or more in Texas and I believe in Russia, both using tokamak generators-- have our astronomers/astronauts been like "Oh geeze, what was that?" Of course not. I'm not sure where you get the idea that fusion would light up a planet like a light switch but it simply ain't so.

Mostly this is what scientists have been looking for. This particular beacon would be even easier to detect with methods devised than seeing a star the mass of our sun from the same distance because we can filters for this particular source.

What I think you're actually talking about is if an advanced civilization builds something like a Dyson Sphere or Dyson Swarm, their superstructures would radiate blackbody radiation in such a way that we could use filters to deduce that these structures in space are of artificial origin, which is true. Other than that I'm not sure why you assume possessing thermonuclear fusion would turn a planet into a beacon, since that isn't the case.

But all this is not really the point I want to make with this thread. My simple point is that one of the primary criticisms of this forum towards G-d and the primary reason most posters give for not believing in G-d – is because there is no evidence of G-d’s existence. I contend this is not really a valid argument – Because these same individuals arguing for some absolute proof of G-d will accept the possibility that somewhere in the universe there is intelligent life similar to man.

There is no statistical likelihood of gods existing: either they exist or they don't. With extraterrestrial life, we can use our understanding of chemistry, biology, and cosmology to reasonably assert that it is highly likely that earth isn't the only planet in the universe with some form of life. As for INTELLIGENT life, you will find much less consensus on that (sometimes I'm not sure there's even one instance of intelligent life yet ), but even so the odds look pretty good. There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy alone, and there are about as many galaxies in the visible universe with about as many stars. That's a lot -- if you had 400 billion unopened (yet magically shuffled) decks of cards, you'd be sure to get a multitude of royal flushes on the first hand if you only drew one hand from each deck.

I am not arguing for or against G-d with this thread nor am I arguing for or against evolving intelligence in the universe similar to man (both of which I personally believe). I am just pointing out a very big inconsistency from many that say they do not believe in or accept the possibility of G-d but they believe in or accept the possibility of intelligence similar to man that can evolve all over the universe - even though there is not one bit of evidence when we have looked to find such evidence.

Zadok

There is no inconsistency. There are no statistical reasons to believe in gods; there are 400 billion + statistical reasons to acknowledge the likelihood of extraterrestrial life. Note also that many do not say "ET definitely exists," they merely say it's highly likely that they do -- another difference between most theists, who generally assert that god(s) DEFINITELY exist.

 

[waitasec]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

it is absurd to think one has the answer without proof, that is why we have science...
and you have a book...

 

[logician]

The fact that we have NOT found signs of intelligent life as of yet is not condusive to the conclusion that it is COMMON, especially intelligent life capable of interstellar travel, and more importantly, reaseach missions carried out by robots they created. Given that life on other planets has had a couple or so billion years to evolve, if intelligent life were indeed COMMON, it is highly probable that we would have seen some evidence of it either as communication signals, or even on earth itself. The problem is, it's like the lottery, if you hit it, you may think it's easy to win, when in reality it is quiet improbable. We oursevles could have hit the evolutionary lottery so to speak, and think that intelligent life is quite common, when in fact it could be a very rare phenomenon.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

Apart from the unwarranted assumptions you make, I also assume you're talking only about the observable universe?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Science has never been able to discover any evidence of any life in the universe other than the life we have found here on earth. One of the theories is that with random possibilities it is inevitable that there would be life and eventually intelligent life. Assuming that life would be more advanced in more mature or more evolved area of our universe – it is most interesting that we have never discovered any electrical magnetic radiation from an intelligent source similar to man or as advanced as man currently on earth.

Even accounting for the vast distances of space there are mature evolved solar systems much like our own that would have reached us with signs of intelligent use of electrical magnetic forces. Recent developments in researching nuclear fusion indicates that controlled nuclear fusion would produce a discernible electrical magnetic beacon pointing us to any intelligent life like our own that exist within the vast dimensions within tolerances of reaching us by now. But there is none.

Is it any more absurd of foolish to believe that there is intelligent life in the universe other than man any more than it absurd to believe there is a G-d?

Zadok

I still think the vast distances involved in space would pose a major hindrance and obstacle either way. I do think its unusual that we don't really pick up "traffic" in way of alien communication assuming they possess advanced capabilities to do so. On the other hand, look at how old earth is, how long humans have been around and the advancement of our own capabilities to transmit into space so far after all this time. Look at how long it takes for us to just communicate with the Mars rovers since the planet was formed and humans took foot.

I would take into consideration human longevity as well as the longevity of our star and planets as a factor as to determining how far a technology can go before a planet dies or a sun expands into a planets Goldilocks zone. If we do have neighbors I would think these factors come into play equally as well. I surmise there is life, but because of these factors, their capabilities may be on or below par with ours and as to those alleged to be above par, I would think even that may not be enough at this time to be detectable.

I would think all this depends on the cosmic neighborhood and conditions. I suspect that we may very well be in the sticks rather than in the cosmic metro areas. The closest Star ( w/solar system?) is known to be Proxmia Centauri C. at a whopping 4.2 Ly. The closest known earth like planet at this time is Gliese 581c approx 20 Ly's away!

-NM-

 

[Duck]

Our earth is on an arm near the far outreaches of our galaxy. The Milky Way is home for billions of solar systems far more evolved than our own - but only 28 million light years away. Our own galaxy should be home to at least one other intelligent life form that reached a point in their evolution (much more than the meager 28 million years they would be from us) where we would be able to discern their presents. But nothing - no evidence at all.

The next closest galaxy - Andromeda (just a few hundred million light years away) is also home for countless possibilities but no signal.

There is absolutly no evidence - yet we believe -- why? but we do not believe in G-d Why?


Zadok

You realize that:
1) EM transmissions follow an inverse square law regarding attenuation? IOW the further from the source the weaker the signal, at some point the signal degrades to a point that it is indiscernible from background radiation.
2) We as a people (aka the human race) have only had technology capable of detecting or transmitting ANY EM signal for just over 100 years, and we haven't actually been looking for external (to Earth) signals for more than about 60 of those years.
3) All ready we are aging out of transmission types that would be detectable by external sources (digital transmissions, cable transmissions, line of sight communications, cellular systems etc)
4) Even though, as you point out "The Milky Way is home for billions of solar systems far more evolved than our own - but only 28 million light years away." Note the bolded part of your statement. Unless said extra-solar intelligence was transmitting EM signals of a nature that we could intercept (and recognize as transmissions, and that were of sufficient strength that the signal strength has not deteriorated below our detection threshold) 27,999,940 years ago we wouldn't have received the signal yet.

If for whatever reason, intelligent life has evolved in our Galaxy, chances are good that until we manage to travel to a star system with that life (or evidence of that life) in it, we might not ever know.

 

[PolyHedral]

4) Even though, as you point out "The Milky Way is home for billions of solar systems far more evolved than our own - but only 28 million light years away." Note the bolded part of your statement. Unless said extra-solar intelligence was transmitting EM signals of a nature that we could intercept (and recognize as transmissions, and that were of sufficient strength that the signal strength has not deteriorated below our detection threshold) 27,999,940 years ago we wouldn't have received the signal yet.

I'd just like to drive home the difficulty of transmitting over these sorts of distances. The loss in a radio signal you get over 28mly is around 220 decibels. (So a signal that starts at 230db will only have 10db left by the time it reaches us.) Your ears can hear 90db before it starts to hurt. However, the numbers deceive: A difference of 10db doesn't mean you make the signal a set amount louder; It means the signal becomes twice as loud.

 

[branson]

since the 1800's the theory of the plurality of worlds has been widely scientificaly accepted. the theory basicly is that other forms of evolved life statisticly should exist on other planets in other solar systems throughout this vast universe. the mathematics are based on the standards that we put forth for habitable planets. i beLIEve that if scientists widely accept this theory, that they should also admit that if there statisticly is other forms of evolved life, that if their evolution occured even 1 percenct before our own, that they would be at least 500,000 years more advanced than us. given that amount of time could their evolution, biologicly and technologically be sufficent enough to find a way around the light speed barrier? and if so why would they want to contact our backwards planet at all?

 

[PolyHedral]

If our physics is correct, there is no way around it. Not now, not ever. No amount of advancing will let you break the laws of physics.

 

[branson]

dont foget that microbial life has been found on mars, its not evolved life but it is still life, fossilized or not.

 

[branson]

most of the theories are actual scientific theories i have come across during my research. some are my own based on current or older theories. they are very easily checked, my belief is that in this almost infinte universe it would be ignorant to beLIEve that we are the only sentient life forms.

 

[branson]

oh yeah heres a mind blower, if we create an anti matter reactor and channel the annilation down a gravity wave tube to power[by thermoelectricity] a series of gravity magnifing generators, theoreticly by focusing the gravity field produced by the intensifiers/generators on a specific point in space time that it will pull space back towards the source, and by turning them off right before it reaches the ship it will snap back carrying the ship with it. instantaneous space travel.