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Is manipulation wrong?

.lava

Veteran Member
Isn't the whole point of manipulation to get something that you want from someone else? What other reason would someone have to be manipulative?

to get something i want for myself...
to get something i want for yourself...
not to want anything at all but would not there be some expectations anyway? or not wanting isn't equal wanting "nothing"? say you meet me, you know me, i know you're aware of me but you would not say hello, you would not look me in the eyes, you would just go and sit somewhere else and pay no attention to me. i would definetely stay away from you. you'd be manipulating my chain of thoughts by your actions, by doing nothing and i would have to design my acts according to data i get from you. everyone does that all the time

.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
to get something i want for myself...
to get something i want for yourself...
not to want anything at all but would not there be some expectations anyway? or not wanting isn't equal wanting "nothing"? say you meet me, you know me, i know you're aware of me but you would not say hello, you would not look me in the eyes, you would just go and sit somewhere else and pay no attention to me. i would definetely stay away from you. you'd be manipulating my chain of thoughts by your actions, by doing nothing and i would have to design my acts according to data i get from you. everyone does that all the time

.

I'm manipulating your chain of thoughts because I want to go unnoticed. That example just shows that I wanted something. Nobody is manipulative unless they want something.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Humans are subject to the laws of physics; their choices aren't. Choices are not material objects, so they are not subject to the same law of cause and effect.
Do the actions you take from any choice produce an energy?
Just the very energy from a smile has a complete cause and effect on those you walk by and changes the response you will receive!
Manipulation in and of itself could not exist outside the laws of cause and effect.
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Do the actions you take from any choice produce an energy?
Just the very energy from a smile has a complete cause and effect on those you walk by and changes the response you will receive!
I can also choose not to return someone else's smile; no law dictates that because they smiled at someone they'll get a smile in return. It's all a matter of choices made by one's self, not an outside force that decides an outcome based on that choice.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Manipulation is like any other tool or idea.

The motivation for it`s use defines it`s ethical properties.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
I can also choose not to return someone else's smile; no law dictates that because they smiled at someone they'll get a smile in return. It's all a matter of choices made by one's self, not an outside force that decides an outcome based on that choice.
Thats called burning the energy up through resistance.
And also the very act of making a choice is a reaction of itself.
 
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DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Well I dont know and maybe Im stupid..But most times "manipulation" is to try and trick someone into getting what you want..

Love

Dallas
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Well I dont know and maybe Im stupid..But most times "manipulation" is to try and trick someone into getting what you want..

Love

Dallas

You are right! Don't let them manipulate you into believing otherwise!
When one becomes happy being there own being they realize happiness can only come from letting others be there own being as well!
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Well I dont know and maybe Im stupid..But most times "manipulation" is to try and trick someone into getting what you want..

Love

Dallas
That's what it always is, but it's not always such a bad thing. If I can manipulate a billionaire into giving money to the poor, who really loses?
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
That's what it always is, but it's not always such a bad thing. If I can manipulate a billionaire into giving money to the poor, who really loses?
I heard that it was said if you give a poor man a million dollars he would end up poor again.It is a mentality that produces cause and effect!:D
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
Isn't the whole point of manipulation to get something that you want from someone else? What other reason would someone have to be manipulative?

I have to master the art of manipulation to be successful at my present career, which I don't like too much. Anyone in sales or who has been in sales knows what I am talking about. I am lucky enough to work for a company that prides itself on being a contradiction... they want us to sell everybody everything even if they don't need it, but they want us to not lie, be pushy, and only sell people what they need. There is a serious focus on ethics. How are you supposed to meet these insane quotas and be ethical and not pushy? We have to pull a magic wand out our rear ends that's how....

Anyway, I manipulate people, we all do. How good you are at it depends on how successful you are, and how ethical you can be. If you are not good at manipulation you are more likely to resort to unethical manipulating which is honestly a hell of a lot easier.

Even if I am in a bad mood, I am happy and cheery and talkative. This is a manipulation because customers are more likely to buy from someone who projects positive energy. The customers are also more likely to reflect your attitude, if you can be real about it. Fake is no good. When they feel a little happier as a result of reflecting your attitude, they are more likely to buy.

Building morale is a manipulation. We must have some sense of trust to ensure a sale. This is done by casual conversation, in which we build a relationship and casually probe the customer. By asking lifestyle open ended questions and getting the customer to talk, we manipulate. We search for needs and wants, but primarily needs, and then we match the different products we have to sell to those needs. The customer just got done telling us that they are on the road every other day for their job, so they need a car charger, and they basically told us that they need it. They sold themselves thanks to our manipulating the information out of them through conversation.

We make the products visual, and place it in their hands if we can. This is called "transfer of ownership," and is a manipulative action. It gives a sense of being theirs before it is bought.

We manipulate our words to work around negatives. If I am wanting to dissuade someone from moving towards a product because from what they have told me it is not fitting and I think they will be unhappy, I say:

"This blah blah cannot do that and it will never be able to do that because it is blah blah blah."

"But now this one.... it is unable (instead of it can not) to do this right now, however (instead of but, cause people don't like buts, people are conditioned to think buts are catches) in x amount of time it will blah blah and it can do this and this right now for you which you said that you would like when you told me about blah blah."

Instead of "I can't do that." We say, "I am unable to do that, however this is what I can do....."

It is all a manipulation. I am lucky though. Where I work in sales, there is actually a serious focus on ethics like I said, but there is also a serious focus on getting the customer what they will actually be the most happy with and what they can use best with their lifestyle and career.

I still hate it though. Anyone can find a need for anything if you look hard enough. It is sales through justification.

Anyway, I try not hurt anyone with it. When I get someone who is totally into it and who is obviously not hurting for money, I pile it on and get everything I can. Then when I get someone who is struggling, I take it easy and don't squeeze.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Exactly! Now you understand. The choice has an effect.
The effect is determined by the person himself though, not any outside force like karma or God, this is where you and me differ. I understood where you were going in the first place, I just hold a different belief.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I have to master the art of manipulation to be successful at my present career, which I don't like too much. Anyone in sales or who has been in sales knows what I am talking about. I am lucky enough to work for a company that prides itself on being a contradiction... they want us to sell everybody everything even if they don't need it, but they want us to not lie, be pushy, and only sell people what they need. There is a serious focus on ethics. How are you supposed to meet these insane quotas and be ethical and not pushy? We have to pull a magic wand out our rear ends that's how....

Anyway, I manipulate people, we all do. How good you are at it depends on how successful you are, and how ethical you can be. If you are not good at manipulation you are more likely to resort to unethical manipulating which is honestly a hell of a lot easier.

Even if I am in a bad mood, I am happy and cheery and talkative. This is a manipulation because customers are more likely to buy from someone who projects positive energy. The customers are also more likely to reflect your attitude, if you can be real about it. Fake is no good. When they feel a little happier as a result of reflecting your attitude, they are more likely to buy.

Building morale is a manipulation. We must have some sense of trust to ensure a sale. This is done by casual conversation, in which we build a relationship and casually probe the customer. By asking lifestyle open ended questions and getting the customer to talk, we manipulate. We search for needs and wants, but primarily needs, and then we match the different products we have to sell to those needs. The customer just got done telling us that they are on the road every other day for their job, so they need a car charger, and they basically told us that they need it. They sold themselves thanks to our manipulating the information out of them through conversation.

We make the products visual, and place it in their hands if we can. This is called "transfer of ownership," and is a manipulative action. It gives a sense of being theirs before it is bought.

We manipulate our words to work around negatives. If I am wanting to dissuade someone from moving towards a product because from what they have told me it is not fitting and I think they will be unhappy, I say:

"This blah blah cannot do that and it will never be able to do that because it is blah blah blah."

"But now this one.... it is unable (instead of it can not) to do this right now, however (instead of but, cause people don't like buts, people are conditioned to think buts are catches) in x amount of time it will blah blah and it can do this and this right now for you which you said that you would like when you told me about blah blah."

Instead of "I can't do that." We say, "I am unable to do that, however this is what I can do....."

It is all a manipulation. I am lucky though. Where I work in sales, there is actually a serious focus on ethics like I said, but there is also a serious focus on getting the customer what they will actually be the most happy with and what they can use best with their lifestyle and career.

I still hate it though. Anyone can find a need for anything if you look hard enough. It is sales through justification.

Anyway, I try not hurt anyone with it. When I get someone who is totally into it and who is obviously not hurting for money, I pile it on and get everything I can. Then when I get someone who is struggling, I take it easy and don't squeeze.

All of these reasons come from your need of financial gain. You're still only being manipulative because you want something; in this case it's a paycheck. There are many different forms of manipulation, but they all go back to a person's desire to have something.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
All of these reasons come from your need of financial gain. You're still only being manipulative because you want something; in this case it's a paycheck. There are many different forms of manipulation, but they all go back to a person's desire to have something.

I know. I agree. I was embellishing, and giving my personal intimate relationship with manipulation.

Due to this, and a few other things, I can smell manipulation a mile away. When I am not at work, I try not to manipulate people. I get sick of it.

I would like to master the art of manipulating myself, and that's all. I also want to get the hell out of sales.
 
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I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
I know. I agree. I was embellishing, and giving my personal intimate relationship with manipulation.

Due to this, and a few other things, I can smell manipulation I mile away. When I am not at work, I try not to manipulate people. I get sick of it.

I would like to master the art of manipulating myself, and that's all. If I can get the things I want through that alone I would be happy, probably not though. I wish I could manipulate myself the hell out of sales.
All it takes is to start looking for another job. When you find one, get out of sales. Manipulation finished. You could easily open up another tab and hop on to the jobs section of craigslist lol.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
The effect is determined by the person himself though, not any outside force like karma or God, this is where you and me differ. I understood where you were going in the first place, I just hold a different belief.
I don't think you understand what I believe. Lets just say I believe all is a sea of energy.
Call it any name you choose! Any bad energy you put out becomes a resistance to your own self.The more negative energy you put out the more resistant you become to this balance of pure energy. When we are kids we may find ourselves intrigued by how well we can balance ourselves. As negative energy comes in we may find ourselves getting motion sickness and the more that gets in the more phobias may appear.Religion is the key to letting go of negative energy and drawing in positive to keep perfect balance!
(my theories are not scientifically tested;))
I do believe nothing exists except for energy.
 

Vasilisa Jade

Formerly Saint Tigeress
All it takes is to start looking for another job. When you find one, get out of sales. Manipulation finished. You could easily open up another tab and hop on to the jobs section of craigslist lol.

I live in a super small town. I did manipulate myself out of waitressing. I put on a show at the hiring fair for radioshack and somehow made them believe I could sell even when I had no experience, because all I could sell was myself and somehow I did. I flirted with my manager to gain some favoritism so that he would train me because I was the only one without experience and no one wanted to really train. They kind of expect you to just figure out all the techniques.

I took a serious pay cut just so I could get experience to take somewhere else that paid better. I did it. I make a great paycheck for my location (small poor town for the most part). There are no good job opportunities here better than what I have, and now I have 4 years tenure. I have a 401K, benefits, a union.... I could retire at 50 yrs old... So I am a bit stuck because what I want is not logical.

So now I am working on staying with the company but manipulating myself into a different position. :p
 

.lava

Veteran Member
I'm manipulating your chain of thoughts because I want to go unnoticed. That example just shows that I wanted something. Nobody is manipulative unless they want something.

lol OK, let's say, in the same story you did not notice i was there but i assumed you did. how does that work?

.
 
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