Is materialism a part of Atheism or Atheism a part of materialism?

[Bunyip]

atheism is configured from 'materialism'. They're both lacking in information, hence 'wrong', no matter how one spreads the bagel. agnosticism without atheism is possible, if we have certain definitions. atheism with very strict definition of 'theism', is viable, but then limited to very specific arguments. plain materialism simply is too problematic to justify.

When you say that they are 'both lacking in information, hence wrong' what do you mean? What is the argument or logic being applied there?

 

[Desert Snake]

When you say that they are 'both lacking in information, hence wrong' what do you mean? What is the argument or logic being applied there?

Explicit atheism is not accounting for a logical amount of statistical data, even if mostly noise, to be processed in a logical format. It's just not 'intellectually' or realistically coherent as a belief.
plain materialism is simply incorrect, and hence just a 'word' describing something that we can effectively write off as non-affective for a perspective, even in the incredibly small chance it is 'true'.
ie statistically improbable to the point where its not worth it to entertain too much of my thought to it

 

[Bunyip]

Explicit atheism is not accounting for a logical amount of statistical data, even if mostly noise, to be processed in a logical format. It's just not 'intellectually' or realistically coherent as a belief.
plain materialism is simply incorrect, and hence just a 'word' describing something that we can effectively write off as non-affective for a perspective, even in the incredibly small chance it is 'true'.

its green cheese moon stuff, dude. I know that some are attached to it, and that;s great, but I can't entertain too much involvement discussing it or entertaining it. /The stats are almost impossible for it to be true

What stats? What statistical data? How on earth do you imagine disbelief in God to be incoherant as a belief?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well no, I don't even see a relationship between animism and atheism, let alone why they would be mutually exclusive.

Well, ok. In my example I believe the mind to be part of some kind of 'soul'-like force, and the body is just its landing pad. I think that perhaps a better than 21st century explanation on consciousness may eventually prove it, I guess. It just isn't taken well by western atheists.

 

[Bunyip]

Well, ok. In my example I believe the mind to be part of some kind of 'soul'-like force, and the body is just its landing pad. I think that perhaps a better than 21st century explanation on consciousness may eventually prove it, I guess. It just isn't taken well by western atheists.

What has it got to do with atheism? Lots of theists reject it also.

 

[Desert Snake]

What stats? What statistical data?

Anything outside of a materialism paradigm. Those stats will vary depending on ones process for determining 'noise' from plausible instances, and largely vary in non-materialistic information, or plausibility.

trust me, it's untenable as a position.

 

[Bunyip]

Anything outside of a materialism paradigm. Those stats will vary depending on ones process for determining 'noise' from plausible instances, and largely vary in non-materialistic information, or plausibility.

trust me, it's untenable as a position.

That doesn't even make sense. There is no statistical data demonstrating anything that conflicts with materialism, and atheism has nothing to do with materialism anyway.

You can't render a position untenable by just dismissing it without a rational argument.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

What has it got to do with atheism? Lots of theists reject it also.

I don't know. I just feel there is this odd gray area being created here which good definitions are supposed to cover. I mean, I guess as an atheist I can now believe in spaghetti monsters from space and mythical unicorns that could wield all manner of magical power over us. So long as I don't call these things god, and worship them. I suppose as an atheist, with the right logical reasoning, I also might extend myself to posit that an all-powerful being created us, but I simply don't subscribe to its religion or it didn't hand one out or something.

 

[Desert Snake]

What stats? What statistical data? How on earth do you imagine disbelief in God to be incoherant as a belief?

Actually I said explicit atheism is incoherent as to logic.

and, that said, nevermind; like I said, this may not be worth my time and effort, I am not willing have this sort of ''dialogue'', in tone and lack of substance that you are already engaging in. It is pretty clear to me that you don't have the necessary parameters for this debate.

 

[Bunyip]

I don't know. I just feel there is this odd gray area being created here which good definitions are supposed to cover. I mean, I guess as atheist I can now believe in spaghetti monsters from space and mythical unicorns that could wield all manner of magical power over us. So long as I don't call these things god, and worship them. I suppose as an atheist, with the right logical reasoning, I might extend myself to posit that an all-powerful being created us, but I simply don't subscribe to its religion or it didn't hand one out or something.

Well as long as it is not that you have started to believe in God, none of those things are related to atheism. So sure, you can believe in unicorns and be atheist.

 

[Desert Snake]

That doesn't even make sense. There is no statistical data demonstrating anything that conflicts with materialism, and atheism has nothing to do with materialism anyway.

You can't render a position untenable by just dismissing it without a rational argument.

Ever heard of cheese balls? We have them in the usa. they're pretty good, I have had one or two, though I generally don't eat them.

adios

 

[Bunyip]

Actually I said explicit atheism is incoherent as to logic.

Yes I know, but your reasoning is so far not apparent.

and, that said, nevermind; like I said, this may not be worth my time and effort, I am not willing have this sort of ''dialogue'', in tone and lack of substance that you are already engaging in. It is pretty clear to me that you don't have necessary parameters for this debate.

So you give up flinging insults before we even start - because of my 'tone'. Never liked pidgeon chess.

 

[Bunyip]

Ever heard of cheese balls? We have them in the usa. they're pretty good, I have had one or two, though I generally don't eat them.

adios

Ever heard of trying to discuss stuff like an adult? Rather than giving up instantly.
All I did was politely ask you about your claim - which is what this forum is for. There is no need to throw a tantrum and get nasty.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Well as long as it is not that you have started to believe in God, none of those things are related to atheism. So sure, you can believe in unicorns and be atheist.

Well, then the problem now is the question of what constitutes a religion. By believing in spiritual forces, you might be engaging in tacit religion, at least.

 

[Sees]

Well, then the problem now is the question of what constitutes a religion. By believing in spiritual forces, you might be engaging in tacit religion, at least.

Among many good reasons to characterize religion by practice and behavior much more so than by beliefs and thoughts.

 

[Bunyip]

Well, then the problem now is the question of what constitutes a religion. By believing in spiritual forces, you might be engaging in tacit religion, at least.

No, religion is irrelevant. Belief in a god is what counts. You can be religious and atheist.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Among many good reasons to characterize religion by practice and behavior much more so than by beliefs and thoughts.

Well, technically any atheist that engages in the idea that there is anything supernatural, be it mind/body daulism, or astrology, or powers in spells or blessings etc. etc. technically is going from being an atheist to someone who has the idea that the occult exists. It's sure to change their behavior, if even minutely, and that might qualify as religious practice. Technically, my dual perception of the mind/body, which, equaling animism, falls under that class. And this drastically changes the perception of reality that I have, apparently, to the perception I'd have and perhaps way of behaving on a religion forum for example were I merely a materialist.

 

[Sees]

Well, technically any atheist that engages in the idea that there is anything supernatural, be it mind/body daulism, or astrology, or powers in spells or blessings etc. etc. technically is going from being an atheist to someone who has the idea that the occult exists. It's sure to change their behavior, if even minutely, and that might qualify as religious practice. Technically, my dual perception of the mind/body, which, equaling animism, falls under that class. And this drastically changes the perception of reality that I have, apparently, to the perception I'd have and perhaps way of behaving on a religion forum for example were I merely a materialist.

I understand what you are saying and agree it does have an influence...maybe more a question of degree and such. In a sense all have a religion and each is unique, individual to differing degrees but if the terms are too open they rapidly lose effectiveness.

 

[Bunyip]

Well, technically any atheist that engages in the idea that there is anything supernatural, be it mind/body daulism, or astrology, or powers in spells or blessings etc. etc. technically is going from being an atheist to someone who has the idea that the occult exists.

No, not at all - atheism just relates to belief in a God, not the supernatural.

It's sure to change their behavior, if even minutely, and that might qualify as religious practice. Technically, my dual perception of the mind/body, which, equaling animism, falls under that class. And this drastically changes the perception of reality that I have, apparently, to the perception I'd have and perhaps way of behaving on a religion forum for example were I merely a materialist.

What do you mean 'merely a materialist' and what do you mean about their behaviour?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

No, religion is irrelevant. Belief in a god is what counts. You can be religious and atheist.

Ok, hmm. This seems to be a crucial juncture. Not all religions are as faith heavy as they are action heavy, that is a pretty fundamental thing that one learns. That is to say, of a religion, the belief in god(s) may be the most benign quality on their whole sort of menu. It could be a thing which is just a tiny adjunct to it. At a certain point with all that, it might get hard to recognize an atheist in it, if there would be one who might surprisingly claim in, in contrast to all other parameters involved. Maybe atheism is a poor term for what many probably are in the west, which one might define with the another term that speaks to someone who is 'areligion' or something. Because that's how a lot of them probably mean to classify themselves.