Is money enslaving us?

[Revoltingest]

Clearly, it does enslave some people. Such as, how many base their career decisions based on what will make them the most money rather than what they'd actually rather be doing.Or those who dedicate their entire lives to acquiring as much of it as possible.

People who'd say they're enslaved by money because they freely decide to acquire it are deluded & weak.
Actual slavery is very different, & much much worse. It's to be owned by someone else, & to not be able
to make decisions about one's life.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you think money does not do this to a lot of people?

Money doesn't do anything to people.
But it seems that people often dislike decisions they make about money.
This is not even remotely slavery.
Anyone who feels enslaved by inanimate objects needs to step up & take responsibility for their own life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Money doesn't do anything to people.

Actually, money does do things to people. Such as, the closer you are to making $50,000/year, the better off your overall mental health is (making more had negligible effects). It can reveal someone's true personalities. It can be someone's salvation or damnation. Money, or a lack of, can cause people to do crazy things. The history of Capitalism is, after all, filled with examples here and there of someone doing something that was considered unethical and later made illegal because of the results of those unethical actions, and illegal actions carried out under the guise of being legal - or just masked by words and lies. Enron comes to mind.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Anyone who feels enslaved by inanimate objects needs to step up & take responsibility for their own life.

The addict usually does not know their position until someone points it out, and often do not accept it until they hit rock bottom.

 

[Laika]

My friend just told me: "I just burned my remaining money and I am living money free with many other amazing people."

I was wondering what other people think about money and this society based on money. Would another world without money be possible?

Answered "yes". But of course money isnt actually that enslaves people: it simply is the most obvious representation of our relationships built around it. it is through money that we experience our dependence on others such as on our employer for a wage, on welfare payments from the government, etc. All of which render our creative and productive powers of hard work subordinate to cash incentives. A major part of it is the way we are trapped into a consumer society and think that buying stuff will make us feel like more successful, happier people. Our willingness to buy stuff we really dont need is a way to compensate for our own inner feeling of impoverishment as we try to fill a void with things rather than life-affirming positive experiences that remind us how good it is to be alive. Money used properly can be a good thing based only on what it can buy but it still represents our social dependence.

 

[Whiterain]

People, please, come one, come all... Listen to me... I'm just kidding.

Such things are a necessity when there are billions in need. However, greed has perpetuated much fallacy in our lives.. We do not NEED 90% of what we are encouraged to possess.

You can live off water for months at a time. I'm sure we do not need 3 square meals a day.

Our culture is obsessed with vanity, glam, money, wealth, ludacy... Our culture is being designed to perpetuate our economy in the US and numerous other cultures.

If I could get a solid 2k a month that would be easy living for me, other than taking up professional vagrancy and wondering the states, checking out the Aztecan and Mayan ruins.

People don't understand why I'm not obsessed with riches, fame, estate, notoriety, status... It's just stuff I wasn't in life for. I wanted Glory in battle one way or the other for sure, but that's not going to happen. I must let it go, you see, I'm sort of in hell already. Explosions, women, children screaming, people dying, theatrics, that's the real world to me. Where I can die with honor, glory and dignity in tact while experience massive loss of bowel control there at the bad bit, death rattle. It's got to be dumbed down, the Government is insultingly pushing stupidity and ignorance on people. In the US anyway, it's all just become one big god forsaken insult to your intelligence. And peace of mind is what people want, it's what they get.

So income is a necessity, just make peace with it. I quite contrasting with other peoples lives and values. The depravity and corruption is sensational to me, and that's how people want it. It's a bit of a reaction from all the centuries of religious oppression, the Church should have expected such an outcome.

I'm not one to judge, honestly. Strive for riches, fame and wealth... Have an estate, huge bank account and ingrateful family to provide for.

 

[Sunstone]

You know, I have noticed one thing about money....It is like a drug....you get a small dosage, but you want more and more with no end to it.....

It's human nature to want more of something than one needs. This is true of money, but depending on who you are talking about, it's also true of most things that people value. We can say one is "enslaved" to money, but it might be more precise to say one is enslaved to one's desire for more than one needs. aka, greed.

 

[Sunstone]

I was wondering what other people think about money and this society based on money.

A couple thoughts on that....

First, a society based on money quite obviously increases a person's options. On the individual level, the more money one has, the more options one has -- all else being equal. On the societal level, a society based on money provides vastly more options to its members than a society based on barter.

Second, there seems to be a real danger faced by any society based on money that money becomes the sole meaningful measure of value. For instance, the executives of a large corporation, in deciding whether to offshore their manufacturing to a country with lower production costs are nowadays unlikely to take into account (that is, value) the fact the country with lower production costs also has lower standards for pollution or worker safety. Instead, the decision whether to offshore is reduced to the cost/benefits of offshoring solely as expressed in dollars.

The only possible solution, so far as I can see, to the reduction of everything to its monetary value are laws and regulations to prevent that reduction. For instance, impose a tax on goods imported into a country from another country that has significantly lower standards of worker safety. Unfortunately, we live in a society in which corporate propaganda has persuaded many people that all laws and regulations governing business are evil. Consequently, I think we're likely to see the trend continue towards valuing people and things solely in terms of their monetary value.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually, money does do things to people. Such as, the closer you are to making $50,000/year, the better off your overall mental health is (making more had negligible effects). It can reveal someone's true personalities. It can be someone's salvation or damnation. Money, or a lack of, can cause people to do crazy things. The history of Capitalism is, after all, filled with examples here and there of someone doing something that was considered unethical and later made illegal because of the results of those unethical actions, and illegal actions carried out under the guise of being legal - or just masked by words and lies. Enron comes to mind.

It seems we have to very different Weltanschauungen.
My interaction with inanimate objects is entirely by my choice.
(Note the implicit ignoring of things like bullets heading my way.)
Money doesn't demand that I pursue it with dangerous obsession.
But even if it were to do so, we sentient beings may refuse to submit.

By the bizarre rationale offered in this thread, we're enslaved by many other things,
eg, fast food, TV, internet, cars, homes, family, clothing, lovers, hobbies, children.
This is of course, an utterly ridiculous abdication of personal autonomy & responsibility.
Quod erat demonstrandum by reductio ad absurdum.
(How's that for a pretentious conclusion?)

 

[Revoltingest]

The addict usually does not know their position until someone points it out, and often do not accept it until they hit rock bottom.

Even addicts have choices.
The fact that some are very compelling doesn't make choice go away.
But do you really believe that money causes the same kind of physical & mental
dependency that opiates do?
That personal autonomy flees us merely because we've used money?
If this is indeed true for even a tiny percentage of the population, then humanity is
even more intellectually & emotionally destitute than even this cynic ever imagined.

 

[Revoltingest]

What worth does gold have, exactly? Beyond its use as a conductor, anyway? Fun fact, the notion that a gold or other precious-metal based economy is better than fiat currency is...utterly baseless. Gold has worth because we all agree it's valuable. Its only remotely unique properties are that it's semi-rare and utterly useless at anything outside conducting a current. Fiat currency is just the natural evolution of that.

So yeah. Fiat currency is a good thing, even with the fact you can counterfeit it.

Gold is useful for many things.
I wish it were cheaper because it would be a great roofing material because of its corrosion resistance.
But whether we use paper money or gold, both would function the same.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sometimes there isn't a decision.
For example, I know many poor people in a nearby city who have to work for under minimum wage because nowhere else will hire them.
So they can work a terrible job where they are underpaid or they can starve.

What a decision.

Need, not money compells them to do this.
To have to work for a living is not enslavement.
What's the alternative?
They could choose to not work.
But then would they die, live off charity, or force someone else to support them?

What moneyless society provides a living for people without a requirement to work?
I know of none.
Money is simply a system of resource allocation.
Replace money with some other system, all of people's needs still exist, & resources must still be allocated.

Real slavery is when one can be bought & sold, be forcibly detained for unpaid service, & lose one's autonomy.
Children kidnapped for sex work, unwilling conscripts to kill & die in wars, to be chattel in labor camps, etc.
Those are examples of slavery.
Anyone who thinks they're equivalently enslaved because they must work for a living is deluding themselves,
& degrading the plight of people who actually are enslaved.

 

[Acim]

I voted no.

And after reviewing some comments, I would say it is the perception of needs that correlate to enslavement (where one is doing it to themselves). When a lack is believed to be occurring and there is determined ways to fulfill that lack (even if temporary/short lived), I think that's where plausible enslavement occurs. The closer the believed lack is to a perceived 'core need,' I think the greater the chance for enslavement.

Also doesn't help having a meme of "you have to earn a living." But I don't think that is easy to overcome and is truly just another perceived need. Just happens to be the one that if (believed to be) lacking ways or means to contribute, it does lead to political ideology where people can be enslaved in another way (i.e. beholden to welfare system, or judged as 'charity case.') I think there is connection to that at 'earning a living' but honestly don't feel like going in depth about it, nor do I think anyone much cares.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My interaction with inanimate objects is entirely by my choice.

You may be neuro atypical from what you've posted. Assumed to be true, this would mean your interactions with the world are going to be different from a neurotypical.

But do you really believe that money causes the same kind of physical & mental
dependency that opiates do?

It can. Literally, with the funny things our brain can do to us (such as give us a shot of dopamine), anything can become addictive. Money obviously couldn't cause the same reactions, as the opiates would be introducing chemical agents whereas the money would only be activating certain areas of the brain and producing natural neurochemicals, it is possible to overstimulate the "reward center" of the brain, causing addict-like behaviors (think of people compulsively checking their phones - the social media hits have been found to trigger the "reward center" of the brain). Money is also something we need, and people will do a variety of things, including actions deemed unethical, immoral, and illegal, to obtain their needs when their needs are not being met. We also have this social mentality that does heavily reflect economic reality that throwing money at our problems fixes things. Of course it won't fix everything, but if you need money to replace a busted pipe spraying water, you're SOL if you don't have money for a replacement (or get lucky and know someone with an extra of the size you need, but the example is interchangeable with many parts and pieces). Some may walk around town picking up cans, some will try to hustle some money, some will pawn an item, some will just steal the pipe.
Because we have invested so much power into money, it can have a strong enough influence that some people will kill for it, even go to war for it, repress masses, and have a psychotic recklessness, coldness, and callousness in their pursuit of money.

 

[Revoltingest]

You may be neuro atypical from what you've posted. Assumed to be true, this would mean your interactions with the world are going to be different from a neurotypical.

Is this an accusation that I'm abnormal?
Thank you!

It can. Literally, with the funny things our brain can do to us (such as give us a shot of dopamine), anything can become addictive. Money obviously couldn't cause the same reactions, as the opiates would be introducing chemical agents whereas the money would only be activating certain areas of the brain and producing natural neurochemicals, it is possible to overstimulate the "reward center" of the brain, causing addict-like behaviors (think of people compulsively checking their phones - the social media hits have been found to trigger the "reward center" of the brain). Money is also something we need, and people will do a variety of things, including actions deemed unethical, immoral, and illegal, to obtain their needs when their needs are not being met. We also have this social mentality that does heavily reflect economic reality that throwing money at our problems fixes things. Of course it won't fix everything, but if you need money to replace a busted pipe spraying water, you're SOL if you don't have money for a replacement (or get lucky and know someone with an extra of the size you need, but the example is interchangeable with many parts and pieces). Some may walk around town picking up cans, some will try to hustle some money, some will pawn an item, some will just steal the pipe.
Because we have invested so much power into money, it can have a strong enough influence that some people will kill for it, even go to war for it, repress masses, and have a psychotic recklessness, coldness, and callousness in their pursuit of money.

I'll wager @Wirey 's left one that you are one of the independent ones...no money addiction.

 

[sun rise]

Even addicts have choices.
The fact that some are very compelling doesn't make choice go away.
But do you really believe that money causes the same kind of physical & mental
dependency that opiates do?
That personal autonomy flees us merely because we've used money?
If this is indeed true for even a tiny percentage of the population, then humanity is
even more intellectually & emotionally destitute than even this cynic ever imagined.

Theoretical choices I would agree to. But there is evidence, admittedly being disputed, that humans don't have true free will as evidenced by brain scans http://io9.gizmodo.com/5975778/scientific-evidence-that-you-probably-dont-have-free-will for example

I would argue yes to mental dependency having experienced various forms of it over the years from pot use during the 60's to rewarding bad habits today. Not everyone is hooked by the same thing but everyone is hooked by something. For some it's money. For others, many other things: sports, fame, sex, fixing up trucks.

As far as money itself goes, it's just one more thing people can get hooked on. The very hard thing to do is to have a system where the greedy are much less likely to be bought and where people can't easily use money to corrupt others by appealing to desires that money can buy (I'm thinking of Congress here).

 

[Britedream]

Money is the lubricant of life.

 

[Sunstone]

Money is the lubricant of life.

When you put it like that, it makes me all too painfully aware of how often us ordinary folks get screwed without lubricant these days.

 

[Penumbra]

I voted no.

Materialism and lack of consciousness around sustainability is a big problem right now, but money and currency itself? No, imo.

 

[Nietzsche]

Gold is useful for many things.
I wish it were cheaper because it would be a great roofing material because of its corrosion resistance.
But whether we use paper money or gold, both would function the same.

I can't help but feel the weight of gold would make it less than useful for roofing.