Is Organized Christianity a racket?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wages to clergy are taxed,

Partially.

Ministers' Compensation & Housing Allowance | Internal Revenue Service

plus if other items such as "profits" were taxed, then there would be less charitable funds available. IOW, it's a Catch-22.

Also less money for proselytizing.

... but you aren't looking at the whole picture. Tax exemptions for churches are subsidized by all taxpayers. Getting rid of those exemptions frees up money for everyone, which helps charitable giving as well.

 

[GardenLady]

I look at what our pastor does and I can only shake my head at those who think he shouldn't be paid.

He prepares and for and conducts multiple services each week. He supervises a staff and parishioners that conduct a preschool, support various community charities (food pantry, men's shelter, etc.) and run programs for parish teen, seniors, etc. He works with the parish council on plans, programs, and budgets. He counsels people planning to get married and helps them prepare for their weddings. He comforts those who have lost loved ones and helps them prepare funerals. I'm sure he does a lot I have no idea about.

Why would anyone expect someone to do a full time (or more than full time) job for no compensation? And if he had a paying job elsewhere to support his family, who would do all those hours of work every week?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why should churches be tax exempt?

The ones that really are non-profit would have no profits to tax, and the ones that are charitable enough in their activities to qualify as a legitimate charity don't need a special category carved out for churches.

I never found any harm with non profit church fundraisers as long as they specify the purpose. The BBQ chicken fetes are pretty good too!

What I think is overboard is when they go full blown corporate on people with a fixed permanent infrastructure and overhead of its own.

 

[GardenLady]

fixed permanent infrastructure and overhead of its own

I'm, curious what you mean. Our church has.. well, a church. And we have offices for staff. And we have classrooms for preschool and a playground for the preschool kids. And those functions all need lights, furniture, heat/air etc. How does one have a church without infrastructure or overhead?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I look at what our pastor does and I can only shake my head at those who think he shouldn't be paid.

He prepares and for and conducts multiple services each week. He supervises a staff and parishioners that conduct a preschool, support various community charities (food pantry, men's shelter, etc.) and run programs for parish teen, seniors, etc. He works with the parish council on plans, programs, and budgets. He counsels people planning to get married and helps them prepare for their weddings. He comforts those who have lost loved ones and helps them prepare funerals. I'm sure he does a lot I have no idea about.

Why would anyone expect someone to do a full time (or more than full time) job for no compensation? And if he had a paying job elsewhere to support his family, who would do all those hours of work every week?

I'd probably be OK with that if it's a monastic or cloistered setting like rectors and nunnerys where the clergy don't derive exorbitant incomes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm, curious what you mean. Our church has.. well, a church. And we have offices for staff. And we have classrooms for preschool and a playground for the preschool kids. And those functions all need lights, furniture, heat/air etc. How does one have a church without infrastructure or overhead?

That stuff is OK because it's related to church functions.

This is the stuff I'm talking about that goes beyond a churches mission statement.....


Why Most Churches Are Businesses - Theology of Business Institute

 

[GardenLady]

where the clergy don't derive exorbitant incomes

Our parish budget is shared with all parishioners. We know how much the pastor makes. We know how much the preschool teachers and the music director, and the A/V guy makes. We know where all the money goes. The pastor's salary is a reasonable amount to be able to live in this community and not at all exorbitant.

It's a suburban Lutheran parish, not a monastery or cloister or nunnery. I'm not a fan of the monastery/cloister model at all--if one want to be Christian clergyman or nun, IMHO, one should be working to serve and build up the body of Christ.

 

[robocop (actually)]

The LDS Church owns a giant for-profit real estate empire. It should be taxed.

LDS Church has Most Valuable Private Real Estate Portfolio in the US, Evidence Suggests

I don't know enough about that to comment.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know enough about that to comment.

So safe to say that when you said that there are only 15 paid positions in the LDS Church, you weren't counting any of the companies that are fully owned by the LDS Church... right?

 

[robocop (actually)]

So safe to say that when you said that there are only 15 paid positions in the LDS Church, you weren't counting any of the companies that are fully owned by the LDS Church... right?

I said leadership. I only know that the prophet makes $90,000/yr to live and travel without having to work and that he spends a lot on travel.

The other 14 I do not even know if they get paid.

I was an actor in an LDS movie once. They paid me $100 for one day.

 

[idea]

They are required to report abuse to the law...

I know they are, but they do not do it.
My mother-in-law was abused by her dad.
One sister-in-law was abused growing up by her brother.
Another sister in-law was abused by her father, then allowed her husband to abuse her kids and everyone else's kids.
My brother-in-law's first temple marriage ended, first wife reported he was a molester, church did nothing and sealed him in temple again to wife #2 who was abused as kid and just saw it as business as usual.

Sam Young was excommunicated for trying to create a safer environment, you can read all the stories he collected.

Then, all the kids that become LGBTQ+ because of abuse are further rejected and kill themselves.

Jhn 10:12 - But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

There are wolves in the LDS church, the sheep have scattered.

It goes all the way to the top.

The LDS church was founded by pedophiles, and it continues to this day - all the polygamous offshoots follow the faith in a more transparent manner than those in the main church.

Robo, I think you have gone back and forth? I know it is hard to leave. Watch this, those feelings are not the spirit, they are not from God, it is "elevation" emotion, no different from all the "spiritual" experiences of every other savior-complex group.

Best to find better charities and better volunteer groups to be part of.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I know they are, but they do not do it.
My mother-in-law was abused by her dad.
One sister-in-law was abused growing up by her brother.
Another sister in-law was abused by her father, then allowed her husband to abuse her kids and everyone else's kids.
My brother-in-law's first temple marriage ended, first wife reported he was a molester, church did nothing and sealed him in temple again to wife #2 who was abused as kid and just saw it as business as usual.

Sam Young was excommunicated for trying to create a safer environment, you can read all the stories he collected.

Then, all the kids that become LGBTQ+ because of abuse are further rejected and kill themselves.

Jhn 10:12 - But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

There are wolves in the LDS church, the sheep have scattered.

It goes all the way to the top.

The LDS church was founded by pedophiles, and it continues to this day - all the polygamous offshoots follow the faith in a more transparent manner than those in the main church.

Robo, I think you have gone back and forth? I know it is hard to leave. Watch this, those feelings are not the spirit, they are not from God, it is "elevation" emotion, no different from all the "spiritual" experiences of every other savior-complex group.

Best to find better charities and better volunteer groups to be part of.

I'm truly sorry but I still follow Jesus.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I know they are, but they do not do it.
My mother-in-law was abused by her dad.
One sister-in-law was abused growing up by her brother.
Another sister in-law was abused by her father, then allowed her husband to abuse her kids and everyone else's kids.
My brother-in-law's first temple marriage ended, first wife reported he was a molester, church did nothing and sealed him in temple again to wife #2 who was abused as kid and just saw it as business as usual.

Sam Young was excommunicated for trying to create a safer environment, you can read all the stories he collected.

Then, all the kids that become LGBTQ+ because of abuse are further rejected and kill themselves.

Jhn 10:12 - But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

There are wolves in the LDS church, the sheep have scattered.

It goes all the way to the top.

The LDS church was founded by pedophiles, and it continues to this day - all the polygamous offshoots follow the faith in a more transparent manner than those in the main church.

Robo, I think you have gone back and forth? I know it is hard to leave. Watch this, those feelings are not the spirit, they are not from God, it is "elevation" emotion, no different from all the "spiritual" experiences of every other savior-complex group.

Best to find better charities and better volunteer groups to be part of.

Also I don't believe it just because you said it.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I said leadership. I only know that the prophet makes $90,000/yr to live and travel without having to work and that he spends a lot on travel.

The other 14 I do not even know if they get paid.

I was an actor in an LDS movie once. They paid me $100 for one day.

Which movie was it?

 

[rational experiences]

The humans natural history is exact.

No money first. Life natural. Trade was natural of our mutual family to extended family.

No money.

Star fall came burnt the human mind. Brain chemistry changed. Thoughts beliefs feelings motivations.

Men said my brother's was a first cult group agreed life's takeover of families elders as a murdering corrupt bullies. Just humans.

Is humans reality.

Civilisation rich man. Slave or I'll murder torture you. Built technology and by constant fallout virtually lost his rational mind thought.

Was greedy rich then sacrificed his own Lord king humans greedy life. Just like his family was.

So in that moment of God he said it advised me how evil I was. As a rich man built the first medical organised human healing venue.

Church and new temple application. Sound resonations. Healing potents. Food. As he was extremely rich.

No human had to pay. He owed life. So rich man gave back. Services.

Is exact history.

So rich man was supposed to by rich trade government to continue to give those services freely.

Growing food for family free. Free medical. As nature gave food freely born of nature's body. Not his.

He seems to have forgotten his promise.

Hence as the church religious became a money grabbing I'm a rich man again. Barely gave any services to family. Governing had to separate from religion to build a families organisation by taxes.

For services.

Now they exist by pay packet ever increasing too and not service as a mutual loving family member in service.

Governing was not as greedy as religion but both are now a combined union of rich man's greed again.

It seems you own no self control actually. Agreed alpha A man's greed.

Therefore when you teach family the history of why Rich man got to be rich. He can't lie about it.

He was an evil nasty human.

Gaining money became a society of a rich man's fight. A need to have money to argue.

So family innocent is always paying by its slavery. For Rich man's behaviour fight for control of governing and lifestyle.

As we work to get money to give any control back to him. Always.

So he tries to convince us that our money given to him will save us.

Yet never is he successful as he won't give up monetary control.

So it's his circular reasoning in organisation that fails us all.

Whereas his money was meant to give us all back the mutual life we deserved. By him being rich giving it away. Which isn't all rich men.

Why one rich man says if I give up all my riches richest man wins all past forced controls.

As money hadn't existed first.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Which movie was it?

The LDS scriptural database.

 

[idea]

Also I don't believe it just because you said it.

Victim blaming is common in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

For anyone else reading this,

• They will not help you, their #1 priority is protecting themselves.
• Make sure your detective is in no way affiliated with the church.
• You will need to collect your own evidence, be very vigilant in protecting yourself and kids from those who do further harm
• Get kids therapists who are in no way affiliated with the church (LDS "therapists are there to protect and help church - NOT your kids)
• It's ok to put your own family members in jail (3 of mine are).
• It's not just about you and your kids, it's about everyone else they abused too.

If anyone else is going through this sh## and needs resources, msg me.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Victim blaming is common in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

For anyone else reading this,

• They will not help you, their #1 priority is protecting themselves.
• Make sure your detective is in no way affiliated with the church.
• You will need to collect your own evidence, be very vigilant in protecting yourself and kids from those who do further harm
• Get kids therapists who are in no way affiliated with the church (LDS "therapists are there to protect and help church - NOT your kids)
• It's ok to put your own family members in jail (3 of mine are).
• It's not just about you and your kids, it's about everyone else they abused too.

If anyone else is going through this sh## and needs resources, msg me.

Thank you as I believe my church should be gone after when it does wrong.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Organized Christianity a racket?

Right from the time Paul faked a vision, Hellenist Pauline-Christianity is a racket, it transpires, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Organized Christianity a racket?

Right from the time Paul faked a vision, Hellenist Pauline-Christianity is a racket, it transpires, please.

Second Coming has informed, I understand, that Organized Pauline-Christianity is Anti-Christ:

Misguidance about Jesus caused by the Antichrist

Quote "If you do not overlook the events of today, you will realize that the prevalent misguidance has been propagated by the Antichrist against whom every Prophet has warned, and whose foundation was laid by the Christian doctrine and the Christian people. It was therefore, necessary that the reformer of the age should be designated the Messiah, inasmuch as all corruption has proceeded
from the followers of the Messiah.

It has been revealed to me in a vision that Jesus was made aware of the poisonous atmosphere that has been spread in the world by the Christian people, in consequence of which, his soul was moved towards a spiritual descent and in its agitation, finding his people bent upon ruin, it desired a substitute on earth who should resemble him and should possess an identical temperament. Therefore, God Almighty granted him, according to His promise, one whose soul resembled his soul, upon whom were bestowed the resolve, character and spirituality of Jesus.
A close relationship was established between him and Jesus as if the two had been fashioned out of the same jewel.

The spiritual attention of Jesus made the heart of the other its resting place and desired to fulfil itself through him.
In this sense his being became the being of Jesus and the passionate intentions of Jesus descended upon it, a descent that was metaphorically described as the descent of Jesus.
It is a spiritual mystery that sometimes so firm a spiritual relationship is established between the holy ones who have passed away and those who are living, through the reflection of their attention and the unity of their thinking, that those in heaven regard those on earth as their spiritual substitutes.
The designs generated in their hearts in heaven are correspondingly generated by God’s command in the hearts of their reflections on earth.

A soul which is thus united with one on earth is bestowed the capacity to communicate its designs fully to that soul.
This transfer takes place under Divine direction. This is the Divine way in which Prophets and the holy ones who have passed away descend upon the earth. It was thus that Prophet Elijah descended in the form of John the Baptist.
This is also the true meaning of the descent of Jesus, which has been revealed to me." Unquote

[A’ina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 5, pp. 254-256]
(Essence of Islam Volume-3 page 184-185)
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/essence-3.pdf

Right?

Regards