Is practicing polyamory selfish?

[brokensymmetry]

I can see how that would make you feel, and to be honest, at the beginning of us being poly, I felt that way. It was incredibly hard to wrap my head around and I didn't understand how my husband having a girlfriend wasn't taking away from us.



Do you not think that poly people have this ultimate loyalty that you and your wife have?



What do you mean lost?

I don't think poly people could have the ultimate loyalty that you could get in an ideal monogamist situation. That being said, I realize that few relationships are close to the ideal and it may be that there is more loyalty between people in a polyamorist situation than in a given monogamist situation, but if you are comparing in principle two ideal situations, no, I don't think it is possible. This is one thing that is lost if people decide to go the polyamorist way. Other things are lost if you are on the monogamist side, such as, the excitement and interest that might be gained from having new love interests etc.

 

[Nymphs]

I don't think poly people could have the ultimate loyalty that you could get in an ideal monogamist situation.

Why? I am really interested in why you feel that my husband and I can't have ultimate loyalty even when he has a girlfriend. I'd love for you to expand this thought. :yes:

This is one thing that is lost if people decide to go the polyamorist way.

One thing?

 

[brokensymmetry]

Why? I am really interested in why you feel that my husband and I can't have ultimate loyalty even when he has a girlfriend. I'd love for you to expand this thought. :yes:



One thing?

If I had a gf I cared a lot about, even loved, that means I'd have a unique and intimate relationship with her that I don't have with my wife. That's how I role in my romantic relationships. We'd soon have our own stupid vocabulary, stories and humor that would be exclusive to just me and her, excluding my wife. When I am struggling or feeling down, who do I reach out to? When I'm excited about something cool that has happened, who do I think to call very first? Gut reaction? Who do I know I need to talk to about major life decisions? That's what I mean by loyalty, as it is, on all of these things, it's my wife, my wife, my wife. If I had a serious gf, I'd probably feel torn. Maybe I'd take turns, alternate around, I don't know. But yeah, the loyalty would not be the same at all.

That's one thing I can think that has to be lost in pursuing a polyamorist approach. I imagine there are other things.

 

[Pegg]

I know, I know, I make a lot of threads on the subject, but I'm just particularly interested in understanding and hearing others opinions on the subject. I appreciate y'all putting up with it.

If a person practices polyamory, are they being selfish? I was reading the Reddit Subforum on polyamory today and someone mentioned being called selfish for practicing polyamory/being polyamorous -- I'm curious to what y'all think.

it seems a bit like usury to me. You don't fully give yourself to any one of the people you are seeing, so if you are not willing to commit to them, you are just using them. Disloyalty also comes into it.... its a bit of a negative trait to practice.

 

[Nymphs]

it seems a bit like usury to me. You don't fully give yourself to any one of the people you are seeing,

How do you know that? I can give my full self to multiple people.

so if you are not willing to commit to them, you are just using them.

How is being in a relationship (ex. husband and girlfriend) not committing to them?

Disloyalty also comes into it.... its a bit of a negative trait to practice.

How is it disloyal when all parties agree to it?

Negative trait? Explanation please.

 

[Nymphs]

If I had a gf I cared a lot about, even loved, that means I'd have a unique and intimate relationship with her that I don't have with my wife.

That is true. No relationship is the same, they are all unique, that's what makes them so special, whether monogamous or polyamorous.

We'd soon have our own stupid vocabulary, stories and humor that would be exclusive to just me and her, excluding my wife.

Of course you would. Don't you have ways of being like that with incredibly close friends? Isn't that excluding your wife too?

When I am struggling or feeling down, who do I reach out to? When I'm excited about something cool that has happened, who do I think to call very first? Gut reaction? Who do I know I need to talk to about major life decisions?

Depends on your version of polyamory. If you consider your wife your primary, then those would be with your wife, and sometimes with your girlfriend. My husband and I talk about all of those things, but sometimes the things he finds cool, I don't, but his girlfriend does, so he goes to her for those. Each circumstance, each feeling, etc. is decided individually, it isn't a one-size-fits-all.

That's what I mean by loyalty, as it is, on all of these things, it's my wife, my wife, my wife. If I had a serious gf, I'd probably feel torn. Maybe I'd take turns, alternate around, I don't know. But yeah, the loyalty would not be the same at all.

From my experience, not so much. The loyalty feels even more than what we had when we were monogamous. That isn't the same for everyone, but I feel like my husband is even more loyal to me because of the situation we are in. I know that doesn't make sense, but it does to us.

That's one thing I can think that has to be lost in pursuing a polyamorist approach. I imagine there are other things.

Other things?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Eating is selfish, walking is selfish, talking is selfish, loving is selfish.

This is just another selfish thing.

 

[brokensymmetry]

That is true. No relationship is the same, they are all unique, that's what makes them so special, whether monogamous or polyamorous.



Of course you would. Don't you have ways of being like that with incredibly close friends? Isn't that excluding your wife too?



Depends on your version of polyamory. If you consider your wife your primary, then those would be with your wife, and sometimes with your girlfriend. My husband and I talk about all of those things, but sometimes the things he finds cool, I don't, but his girlfriend does, so he goes to her for those. Each circumstance, each feeling, etc. is decided individually, it isn't a one-size-fits-all.



From my experience, not so much. The loyalty feels even more than what we had when we were monogamous. That isn't the same for everyone, but I feel like my husband is even more loyal to me because of the situation we are in. I know that doesn't make sense, but it does to us.



Other things?

I have friends. I have other family too. But in response to the questions I posed, the answer is always my wife. She takes precedence over all of my friends, any other family member and so on. As my (sole) partner in life these other relationships are even defined vis a vis my relationship with her in a sense.

So now the question is, do I really love this gf or not? Because when I love someone in this way, as I do my wife, my inclination is to share this sort of thing with them in a way that I don't with others, to give them that sort of precedence in my own thinking and planning. This is what I meant by loyalty and why I think that would have to go if you were going to be very open to really loving others in the way that we are discussing.

If you are okay with that, and you seem to be (re your husband talking to his gf about certain things first) I don't see why it's relevant in your estimation that I think this indicates that a degree of loyalty is lost. You may not think my understanding of loyalty worth it, you may find it exhausting or oppressive even (I don't really know you think that, just possibilities that sprung to my mind) but it is the case given my understanding and usage of the term that it would be diminished in a polyamorist situation. I'm fairly sure I know how I'd feel about the situation, even if you are completely comfortable or even happy about the changes in your own life with this. I'm cool with that, I don't expect everyone to have my tastes, or emotional responses etc.

Well one other thing that springs to mind is freedom from jealousy. This is a lot more dependent on how individuals are than what I said before, which I think is just entailed by the way I defined 'loyalty' and the nature of what having multiple romantic, serious, relationships would be. I honestly suspect that some people are just less inclined by nature to feel jealous this way. I also accept that you can work through it and 'get over it' to a large extent, if not completely. But, imagining doing this myself, this would be an enormous personal cost, and I'm going to make a guess that most people who become polyamorists have had to at least put forth a certain amount of effort to work through it.

 

[Pegg]

How do you know that? I can give my full self to multiple people.
How is being in a relationship (ex. husband and girlfriend) not committing to them?
How is it disloyal when all parties agree to it?

Negative trait? Explanation please.

its the fact that someone doesnt fully commit themselves to one person. You can't really give your heart to any of them when you have multiple partners. And that is not 'being in' a relationship imo.

If a married person did the same, we would call it disloyalty to his partner. Why should it be any different with someone in a defacto relationship??

 

[Gjallarhorn]

its the fact that someone doesnt fully commit themselves to one person. You can't really give your heart to any of them when you have multiple partners. And that is not 'being in' a relationship imo.

If a married person did the same, we would call it disloyalty to his partner. Why should it be any different with someone in a defacto relationship??

Do parents give their heart to their children? Seems to me you're saying people can only love one person fully, which is rather ironic considering all the married Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc.

 

[Nymphs]

its the fact that someone doesnt fully commit themselves to one person. You can't really give your heart to any of them when you have multiple partners. And that is not 'being in' a relationship imo.

In my opinion, unless you've been in a polyamorous relationship, you can't really make that judgement call. My husbands heart fully belongs to me, and fully belongs to his girlfriend.

If a married person did the same, we would call it disloyalty to his partner.

I am married, it's called being in a married polyamorous relationship. It isn't disloyalty at all. But I think that idea is might be for another thread?!

Why should it be any different with someone in a defacto relationship??

What do you mean by defacto?

 

[Nymphs]

I have friends. I have other family too. But in response to the questions I posed, the answer is always my wife. She takes precedence over all of my friends, any other family member and so on. As my (sole) partner in life these other relationships are even defined vis a vis my relationship with her in a sense.

As me being the wife, I am always going to be my husbands wife -- we know that and work at it everyday.

So now the question is, do I really love this gf or not? Because when I love someone in this way, as I do my wife, my inclination is to share this sort of thing with them in a way that I don't with others, to give them that sort of precedence in my own thinking and planning. This is what I meant by loyalty and why I think that would have to go if you were going to be very open to really loving others in the way that we are discussing..

Thank you for explaining, and yes, if I was in another relationship, I would share things with my partner that were intimate, but they would be shared in a completely different way than with my husband, because me and this partner are not me and my husband. Does that make sense?

I'm cool with that, I don't expect everyone to have my tastes, or emotional responses etc.

Oh, neither do I, I just like digging into the meat of things so that I can understand why you feel the way you do and why you tick. I'm just a very curious person.

I honestly suspect that some people are just less inclined by nature to feel jealous this way.

You don't have to suspect, my husband is one. He knows I've had intimate relations with other men in the past and he is 100% okay with it. He doesn't have a jealous bone in his body. It's a little weird to me sometimes, but he is just one of those people

I also accept that you can work through it and 'get over it' to a large extent, if not completely. But, imagining doing this myself, this would be an enormous personal cost, and I'm going to make a guess that most people who become polyamorists have had to at least put forth a certain amount of effort to work through it.

Yes, yes I did. But coming out the other side, I couldn't be happier. It transformed my life learning how to deal with the jealously, learning how to deal with a brand new relationship dynamic and it will continue to do that. Maybe I'm weird, but I like personal transformation and change, even if it f----- hard.

 

[brokensymmetry]

As me being the wife, I am always going to be my husbands wife -- we know that and work at it everyday.



Thank you for explaining, and yes, if I was in another relationship, I would share things with my partner that were intimate, but they would be shared in a completely different way than with my husband, because me and this partner are not me and my husband. Does that make sense?



Oh, neither do I, I just like digging into the meat of things so that I can understand why you feel the way you do and why you tick. I'm just a very curious person.



You don't have to suspect, my husband is one. He knows I've had intimate relations with other men in the past and he is 100% okay with it. He doesn't have a jealous bone in his body. It's a little weird to me sometimes, but he is just one of those people



Yes, yes I did. But coming out the other side, I couldn't be happier. It transformed my life learning how to deal with the jealously, learning how to deal with a brand new relationship dynamic and it will continue to do that. Maybe I'm weird, but I like personal transformation and change, even if it f----- hard.

Sure, I get that you have a unique relationship with your husband that you don't share with others and each relationship you have with anyone else, or he has with anyone else, is going to have a unique footprint. I've gathered that from everything you've shared. That, though, I don't believe has bearing on what I mean. I just don't think it's possible... well let me put it this way. Were I to become a polyamorist I would lose the loyalty that I currently have with my wife. It would be a loss and one thing that would have to be compromised on. I accept the relationship would change and possibly some ways for the better even, but the loyalty, as I've defined it, would be lessened. Something gives when you want to romantically love multiple people at once. I find it interesting that you don't think there is any sense of potential downside here.

Alright, about the jealousy. I like challenging myself if the challenge seems worth it to me for some reason, no question. I have done this, I do this. Could I challenge myself on my preferences? I do this when I think it is morally important for me to. I don't feel badly about preferring to have the relationship that I do though, neither do I feel I miss out on anything. I think I have sufficient personal experience and information to make that statement about myself.

 

[Nymphs]

Sure, I get that you have a unique relationship with your husband that you don't share with others and each relationship you have with anyone else, or he has with anyone else, is going to have a unique footprint. I've gathered that from everything you've shared. That, though, I don't believe has bearing on what I mean. I just don't think it's possible... well let me put it this way. Were I to become a polyamorist I would lose the loyalty that I currently have with my wife. It would be a loss and one thing that would have to be compromised on. I accept the relationship would change and possibly some ways for the better even, but the loyalty, as I've defined it, would be lessened. Something gives when you want to romantically love multiple people at once. I find it interesting that you don't think there is any sense of potential downside here.

There are downsides, but the upsides outweigh them by so much they don't even register with me most of the time. I personally don't think anything gives with polyamory. Changes, yes, but doesn't give.

Alright, about the jealousy. I like challenging myself if the challenge seems worth it to me for some reason, no question. I have done this, I do this. Could I challenge myself on my preferences? I do this when I think it is morally important for me to. I don't feel badly about preferring to have the relationship that I do though, neither do I feel I miss out on anything. I think I have sufficient personal experience and information to make that statement about myself.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing with me. You helped clear up some questions that I had about your experience.

 

[brokensymmetry]

There are downsides, but the upsides outweigh them by so much they don't even register with me most of the time. I personally don't think anything gives with polyamory. Changes, yes, but doesn't give.
.

This is fine Nymphs. I wish you the best in your endeavors with this.

 

[Nymphs]

This is fine Nymphs. I wish you the best in your endeavors with this.

Thank you! I'll definitely need it.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Thank you! I'll definitely need it.

I'm soon to be a parent here... spreading our family that way. I'm guessing I'll have a few things to say about familial change myself in a couple months

Yes that was very random haha, it made sense in my own mind though. Maybe I'm bragging a bit.

 

[Nymphs]

I'm soon to be a parent here... spreading our family that way. I'm guessing I'll have a few things to say about familial change myself in a couple months

Yes that was very random haha, it made sense in my own mind though. Maybe I'm bragging a bit.

It makes sense!

And congrats.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Of the formally poly-amorous people I've known (several women and men) it is more than just about their own relationships. Some are just in it for sex and fun, but overall they seem to be on a mission to find something. I don't ask, just observe, but they appear to be trying to undo or to reverse engineer problems that they have identified in society or at least trying to break the mould and try out different living arrangements, as if to find out what is natural. They don't accept traditional wisdom. That's my observation (not of people in this forum but of people I've actually met). You'd be surprised that though I'm a straight introvert I've rented rooms with people from various walks of life, so I've actually lived with diverse people.

 

[Nymphs]

Of the formally poly-amorous people I've known (several women and men) it is more than just about their own relationships.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more? Thanks!

Some are just in it for sex and fun,

That is true, in my opinion, I would usually lump those people in more of an open relationship/swinger relationship instead of polyamory.

Polyamory: the philosophy or state of being in love or romantically involved with more than one person at the same time.

That's why I see a difference.

but overall they seem to be on a mission to find something.

Could you explain a bit more?

I don't ask, just observe, but they appear to be trying to undo or to reverse engineer problems that they have identified in society or at least trying to break the mould and try out different living arrangements, as if to find out what is natural.

Would you mind expanding on this too? Thanks.