Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

[Shadow Wolf]

Let me ask you; before the apple incident did A&E look down and see themselves as covered in clothes?

Scripture does not indicate that is the case.

And why was it important that we see ourselves as naked? Did god blunder when he created us naked, but without the ability to recognize it?

I think it probably inevitable given that clothing does serve a legit survival purpose. Beyond that, I don't see it as a big deal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not an impossible dream, is it? I mean, as I mentioned, *I* managed to do it. I know many others who have...and y'know what else?

So? Wanna discuss math so I can go on about "I can do it, so why can't you" to you?

 

[dianaiad]

If you consider STDs to be the only problem in the world. But what about children without both parents due to marriages that fell apart soon after they began? What about general well-being of society and individual freedom?

What about them?

Given that an average of 40% of children are born 'out of wedlock' in the USA anyway, I fail to see your objection. After all, if everybody picked a partner and stuck with him/her, the children would have a better shot at having both parents.

And frankly, I think that the well-being of society would be well served by not having to deal with STD
The same is often true of sex within marriage as well.[/QUOTE]

Not, I think, to the same extent. But even so, we are talking about what's stupid about premarital sex, which is exposure to STD's, and the emotional and psychological harm that comes as a result.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Hey everyone. I wanted to debate about whether or not premarital sex is moral or immoral. I will take the Catholic side since I am Catholic. We believe that premarital sex is immoral. We believe that it is gravely sinful which means that if it is done with full consent of the will and knowledge of the gravity of the sin, it becomes a mortal sin which can send you to Hell.

Anyway, we Catholics believe that sexual intercourse has two purposes: procreation and the union of the spouses which have to be one man and one woman as we don't believe in same-sex marriages. Premarital sex is often violating the first purpose as it is often contracepted sex. Premarital sex always violates the second purpose since the two having sex with each other are not married.

We believe that the Bible speaks out against premarital sex but I will not quote all of the citations from the Bible about it at this time.

So, what do you think? Do you think premarital sex is moral or immoral? Why or why not?

Sexual activity between two consenting adults is never sinful. That so many religions attempt to claim otherwise is just a perfect example of how religion's main goal is to control weak willing individuals.

 

[QuestioningMind]

There is no actual proof that humans even evolved from primates, let alone been around for 100,000 years. That is scientific speculation, not fact. When God created humans to reflect his own moral qualities, they knew the difference between right and wrong from the beginning. But being in possession of free will, they made the decision that they wanted to live by their own rules.....so God let them...and here we are. What a right mess we have made of everything! When God implements the re-institution of his own rulership over mankind, who is going to accuse him of not allowing enough time for them to try every conceivable kind of government? Each one a dismal failure. We are witnessing the death of democracy right now......what's next?



A nice strawman.....I hope he didn't suffer much as you flogged him to death.

Well; sure, no actual proof... other than the MOUNTAINS of verifiable evidence that makes the ToE the most verified scientific theory if human history. But other than THAT, it's just made up nonsense. I mean. NEXT they'll be claiming that the Earth orbits around the sun or some silly thing.

 

[Skwim]

I think it probably inevitable given that clothing does serve a legit survival purpose.

I assume you're taking about protection from the elements, which would seem to be something that would eventually dawn on them unless god had made them cinder-block stupid.

Beyond that, I don't see it as a big deal.

Yet big enough to bring up.

.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

True. this solution is about monogamy, not marriage, but in many cultures, 'marriage' is about picking a partner and sticking to him/her, with our without legal sanction. In reality, it would be pretty much the same thing.

Which makes pre-marital sex as a topic moot. The important thing isn't the marriage, here. Either a personal, religious or legal ceremony. Because the Christians here on this thread are most certainly not talking about two committed heathens having unwed sex as 'marital sex.'

It's not an impossible dream, is it? I mean, as I mentioned, *I* managed to do it. I know many others who have...and y'know what else?

Those of us who have done so have lived long, healthy, happy and fulfilled (even sexually fulfilled) lives while doing so.

I manage to be vegetarian, which is both healthier and reduces unnecessary suffering. But I understand that, realistically, not everyone is going to take what I consider a sensible step and so I encourage realistic goals for societal health and animal husbandry.

I don't remember saying anything about sex education or the 'abstinence only' option. In fact, it seems to me that we would have to, if we were going to try this, make sure that everybody knows precisely WHY it is important. People do stupid stuff in ignorance.

Abstinence only programs exist because of the notion that 'pre-marital sex is bad.' It enforces sexual purity until marriage. I agree that making informed decisions is important though, so at least we've got that.

I don't know of any other thing that would absolutely ensure the end sought, do you? Birth control measures are not 100% effective against pregnancy, after all, and, in fact, aren't all that helpful in preventing STD's.

Again, 'absolute end' is not a realistic goal. And although hormone based birth control methods are not helpful in preventing STD's, barrier birth control methods such as condoms are (I use both by the way. There's no good reason to not double up on prevention unless you are currently trying for kids). You know what else is...?

Did either of you have sex with anybody ELSE?

Yes, I did. Granted, I was not a willing participant (and I'll leave it there.)
But do you know how we mitigated any further disaster such as spreading an STD to my husband?

I got tested. This is the other scenario in the 'effective way to eliminate STDs,' get tested between partners. Make informed decisions based on those test results.

 

[Skwim]

Sexual activity between two consenting adults is never sinful. That so many religions attempt to claim otherwise is just a perfect example of how religion's main goal is to control weak willing individuals.

CONSIDER:

sin1
/sin/
noun
noun: sin; plural noun: sins
1.an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.


Fornication
voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.
​

And in the Bible god issued a divine law stating that fornication was a sin

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

.​

 

[QuestioningMind]

CONSIDER:

sin1
/sin/
noun
noun: sin; plural noun: sins
1.an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.


Fornication
voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.
​

And in the Bible god issued a divine law stating that fornication was a sin

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

.​

I'm quite aware of the definitions for sin and fornication. Was there something about my post that led you to believe that I was unclear about what the words mean?

 

[Skwim]

I'm quite aware of the definitions for sin and fornication. Was there something about my post that led you to believe that I was unclear about what the words mean?

Frequently people aren't aware of the meaning of words, and I was afraid that had I simply said

"In the Bible god issued a divine law stating that fornication was a sin

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."
​

you might not understand. After all, you were under the false impression that "Sexual activity between two consenting adults is never sinful."


.

 

[dianaiad]

So? Wanna discuss math so I can go on about "I can do it, so why can't you" to you?

Low blow, Shadow Wolf.

However, this IS apples and oranges, is it not?

Are you telling me that there is no free will, so that those who are 'tempted' MUST, therefore, have sex with whoever? I mean, if that's so, why bother with marriage vows...or any other sort of promise?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Frequently people aren't aware of the meaning of words, and I was afraid that had I simply said

"In the Bible god issued a divine law stating that fornication was a sin

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."
​

you might not understand. After all, you were under the false impression that "Sexual activity between two consenting adults is never sinful."


.

And I STILL assert that sexual activity between consenting adults is never sinful, since in order for that to be true then you'd have to accept the ridiculous assertion that some divine entity that determines sin exists without a shred of verifiable evidence that such an entity actually does exist.

 

[dianaiad]

Which makes pre-marital sex as a topic moot. The important thing isn't the marriage, here. Either a personal, religious or legal ceremony. Because the Christians here on this thread are most certainly not talking about two committed heathens having unwed sex as 'marital sex.'

I don't care. I believe that I made it quite clear in my original post that standards involving 'premarital' sex...the morality of it, anyway, is about the culture and the personal opinions of those who make that decision. My own standards are pretty strict; no premarital sex. No extra-marital sex. Both are immoral, in my belief system. However, not everybody subscribes to my belief system.

What I SAID was that aside from any morality involved, premarital (or pre-choose a permanent partner, however it's done) is stupid. There is a fairly large difference between the two concepts, I think.

I manage to be vegetarian, which is both healthier and reduces unnecessary suffering. But I understand that, realistically, not everyone is going to take what I consider a sensible step and so I encourage realistic goals for societal health and animal husbandry.

Good for you. No sarcasm or condescension intended; I mean that. Good for you. However, if everybody became a vegetarian, it wouldn't solve the problem of diseases that have plagued humans for pretty much as long as there have been humans, would it?

Might save a bunch of cows and chickens, ...but then again, probably not. All those cows and chickens would probably go extinct, since nobody would have any use for them....

Abstinence only programs exist because of the notion that 'pre-marital sex is bad.' It enforces sexual purity until marriage. I agree that making informed decisions is important though, so at least we've got that.

Again, 'absolute end' is not a realistic goal. And although hormone based birth control methods are not helpful in preventing STD's, barrier birth control methods such as condoms are (I use both by the way. There's no good reason to not double up on prevention unless you are currently trying for kids). You know what else is...?

Good for preventing STD's???

abstinence before marriage (whatever stands for that) and monogamy afterward?

Yes, I did. Granted, I was not a willing participant (and I'll leave it there.)

I'm sorry.

But do you know how we mitigated any further disaster such as spreading an STD to my husband?

I got tested. This is the other scenario in the 'effective way to eliminate STDs,' get tested between partners. Make informed decisions based on those test results.

....and what if you had 'tested positively?" For something like, oh, AIDS or another incurable STD?

I submit that, if you and your husband remained monogamous, the result would have been the same; the disease would have stopped with you two.

I am quite aware that I'm air dreaming here. Humans have been around a very long time, and this would require individual commitment from everybody; it's not something that can be forced or legislated. Too many selfish people figuring that THEY have the right to fool around all they want to, and to hell with anybody they might infect or impact.

In fact, almost all the posts in here objecting to the idea that pre-marital sex is 'immoral' are arguing from that POV....the selfish one. The one that says 'doesn't matter what risks I run, or what I expose my partners to, or what happens to a child that might result...it's more important that I get an orgasm than any of those considerations, and nobody has the right to criticize!"

 

[Hockeycowboy]

"Might have"..."could have"...."leads us to believe that" something is so, is hardly the language of fact.

Exactly the theist's language.[/QUOTE]
Wow! Really?! Those are the phrases I read in articles supporting common descent!

 

[Willamena]

So, what do you think? Do you think premarital sex is moral or immoral? Why or why not?

It is moral/immoral where a person considers it to be an issue, and not where they do not.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Hey everyone. I wanted to debate about whether or not premarital sex is moral or immoral. I will take the Catholic side since I am Catholic. We believe that premarital sex is immoral. We believe that it is gravely sinful which means that if it is done with full consent of the will and knowledge of the gravity of the sin, it becomes a mortal sin which can send you to Hell.

Anyway, we Catholics believe that sexual intercourse has two purposes: procreation and the union of the spouses which have to be one man and one woman as we don't believe in same-sex marriages. Premarital sex is often violating the first purpose as it is often contracepted sex. Premarital sex always violates the second purpose since the two having sex with each other are not married.

We believe that the Bible speaks out against premarital sex but I will not quote all of the citations from the Bible about it at this time.

So, what do you think? Do you think premarital sex is moral or immoral? Why or why not?

Well, per the adultery laws at the time, a single or married man could sleep with a single woman, but not a married woman. Women could not cry adultery. It was a property crime against another man's possession or possessions.

 

[Skwim]

And I STILL assert that sexual activity between consenting adults is never sinful, since in order for that to be true then you'd have to accept the ridiculous assertion that some divine entity that determines sin exists without a shred of verifiable evidence that such an entity actually does exist.

Then the notion of sinful is moot isn't it?

.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, per the adultery laws at the time, a single or married man could sleep with a single woman, but not a married woman. Women could not cry adultery. It was a property crime against another man's possession or possessions.

in Scripture I find that fornication (from the Greek porneia) would be wrong for 'sleeping' with a single or married woman.
As Hebrews 13:4 mentions that God will judge sexually immoral people, that includes fornication/porneia and adultery.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is moral/immoral where a person considers it to be an issue, and not where they do not.

Interesting mention ^ above ^ because one practicing Catholic man told me he did Not confess his fornication because it is Not a sin.
Years later he walked out on his wife and moved in with another woman while still married.
He was never excommunicated. I do wonder what a practicing Catholic has to do to be excommunicated ______

 

[Willamena]

Interesting mention ^ above ^ because one practicing Catholic man told me he did Not confess his fornication because it is Not a sin.
Years later he walked out on his wife and moved in with another woman while still married.
He was never excommunicated. I do wonder what a practicing Catholic has to do to be excommunicated ______

I have no idea.