Is "pro-birth" offensive?

[Koldo]

It is misleading at best. I don't think that "pro-life" is honest either. Its Pro-choice and anti-choice. No one is anti-life or pro-abortion. No one thinks that abortions are just awesome things. Its just recognition of the necessity of them and what they mean to the lives of women in our society. So you either are for giving women power and control over their bodies and medical choices or you are against women being able to make their own medical choices and having control over their bodies. Simple as that.

Anti-choice is also misleading. It is 'anti-abortion choice'.

 

[Koldo]

People who are opposed to the legalization of abortion: do you find the expression "pro-birth" offensive?

I recently came across the expression, and I think it's one I may be able to use. Until now, I was using "anti-choice", which I still think is accurate, but tends to rile people up.

I don't use "pro-life" because I've seen many people who are opposed to the legalization of abortion be generally anti-life in other ways, so I can't assume that someone who holds that position on abortion is actually "pro-life".

I don't use "anti-abortion" because there are things done by many people who are against the legalization of abortion that would tend to increase the number of abortions (e.g. opposing birth control or proper sex ed).

I think "pro-birth" works: to me, it just says that the person wants fetuses to be born as opposed to aborted. It has a bit to be desired (someone who was truly "pro-birth" would probably be in favour of medical care that helps prevent miscarriages, for instance, which doesn't necessarily follow from being opposed to abortion), but in general, I think it has a lot fewer problems than "pro-life" or "anti-abortion".

So... is "pro-birth" inoffensive? Is it at least less offensive than "anti-choice"?

Actually, I would like to the question the other way around: Wouldn't 'anti-birth' be offensive ?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, I would like to the question the other way around: Wouldn't 'anti-birth' be offensive ?

Who do you think is "anti-birth"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Anti-choice is also misleading. It is 'anti-abortion choice'.

I hope that people would have the sense to use the term in the context of a discussion of abortion. I don't think that any reasonable person would take "anti-choice" to mean "against all choice in all situations".

 

[Sundance]

Like "anti-choice.".

Really? You're really gonna play that game? OK.

 

[Koldo]

Who do you think is "anti-birth"?

No one in particular. But I ask because those who oppose 'pro-choice' are labeled as 'anti-choice' and then by extension those who oppose the 'pro-birth' would be labeled 'anti-birth'.

 

[Koldo]

I hope that people would have the sense to use the term in the context of a discussion of abortion. I don't think that any reasonable person would take "anti-choice" to mean "against all choice in all situations".

Surely the same applies to 'pro-life' then, in which case there is no reason to use anything besides 'pro-life'.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No one in particular. But I ask because those who oppose 'pro-choice' are labeled as 'anti-choice' and then by extension those who oppose the 'pro-birth' would be labeled 'anti-birth'.

But pro-choice people aren't opposed to childbirth; in fact, they support birth as long as the woman supports it, too.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Surely the same applies to 'pro-life' then, in which case there is no reason to use anything besides 'pro-life'.

There are a number of contexts where refusal to allow an abortion will kill the woman. It isn't reasonable to call opposition to abortion in these cases "pro-life" in any sense.

Also, the people who call themselves "pro-life" claim that their position is about defense of human life in general, not just fetuses.

The term "anti-choice" has a narrow context that "pro-life" does not.

 

[Koldo]

But pro-choice people aren't opposed to childbirth; in fact, they support birth as long as the woman supports it, too.

Which means they are against births in a particular way ( against births that oppose the woman's will ) that the other group is not. Much like how being 'anti-choice' doesn't necessarily mean that you are opposed to abortion in case of anencephaly, for instance. It merely means that you want to restrict the abortion choice more than the other group.

If 'anti-choice' is proper then the same applies to 'anti-birth'.

 

[Koldo]

There are a number of contexts where refusal to allow an abortion will kill the woman. It isn't reasonable to call opposition to abortion in these cases "pro-life" in any sense.

Also, the people who call themselves "pro-life" claim that their position is about defense of human life in general, not just fetuses.

The term "anti-choice" has a narrow context that "pro-life" does not.

Many people who identify themselves as 'pro-life' accept abortion as a choice to the woman when her life is in a major danger. Contextually, the 'life' part refers to the unborn's life.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Many people who identify themselves as 'pro-life' accept abortion as a choice to the woman when her life is in a major danger. Contextually, the 'life' part refers to the unborn's life.

Even in that context, the term doesn't work. If "pro-life" is about the well-being of the fetus, then it would imply other positions (e.g. about access to health care for pregnant women) that don't necessarily go along with an anti-choice position.

 

[Koldo]

Even in that context, the term doesn't work. If "pro-life" is about the well-being of the fetus, then it would imply other positions (e.g. about access to health care for pregnant women) that don't necessarily go along with an anti-choice position.

'Pro-birth' would have the same problem.
That's because those labels are not absolute. People often have conflicting views.
Just like you can call yourself 'pro-choice' and yet be against late term abortion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

'Pro-birth' would have the same problem.

Yes, I touched on this in the OP. No label is perfect. "Anti-choice" is the most accurate, but "pro-birth" is a close second and (hopefully) avoids some of the offense that "anti-choice" tends to get.

That's because those labels are not absolute. People often have conflicting views.
Just like you can call yourself 'pro-choice' and yet be against late term abortion.

I'm not against late term abortion.

I'm in favour of measures that would tend to reduce the number of late-term abortions (e.g. reducing unwanted pregancy and ensuring good access to early-term abortion), but I think that a woman should be free to end her pregnancy at any point during her pregnancy.

 

[Koldo]

Yes, I touched on this in the OP. No label is perfect. "Anti-choice" is the most accurate, but "pro-birth" is a close second and (hopefully) avoids some of the offense that "anti-choice" tends to get.

If we are going for accurate: I prefer 'pro-abortion' and 'anti-abortion'. With the word 'choice' or 'rights' as implicitly attached at the end of both.

I'm not against late term abortion.

I'm in favour of measures that would tend to reduce the number of late-term abortions (e.g. reducing unwanted pregancy and ensuring good access to early-term abortion), but I think that a woman should be free to end her pregnancy at any point during her pregnancy.

I know you are not against late term abortion.
What I said is that you can be 'pro-choice' and yet against late term abortion.

 

[jojom]

Really? You're really gonna play that game? OK.

Hey, you dealt the cards so I don't know why you're surprised I picked them up.


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[angellous_evangellous]

People who are opposed to the legalization of abortion: do you find the expression "pro-birth" offensive?/QUOTE]

A rose by any other name...

It's the ideology that is offensive -- I prefer that it has an offensive name.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hey, you dealt the cards so I don't know why you're surprised I picked them up.

A gentleman and a poet.

 

[jojom]

A gentleman and a poet.

Well, a man anyway. But thank you.


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[angellous_evangellous]

Well, a man anyway. But thank you.


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I should have said 'gentlepersyn."