Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[outhouse]

But then you say that "Some history from the time of Muhammad can be accurate?"

Really? What history? .

The Quran | History of Islam

The Quran refers to historical events from which one can receive guidance and gather wisdom.


So the book lies, or you are mistaken?

 

[outhouse]

Now you are merely flame baiting.

Let me get you a bottle.


History of the Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skeptical scholars account for the many similarities between the Qur'an and the Jewish and Hebrew Scriptures by saying that Muhammad was teaching what he believed to be a universal history, as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels - as well as his exposure to the Hanif tradition by way of his paternal-grandfather, Abdul Muttalib.

 

[outhouse]

Quran mention Ibrahim who was a righteous person and had a different character. There is one chapter in Quran named after Ibrahim. I would like to quote from it here:

[

Then prove this man has historicity as written.


The NT helps provide evidence for jesus as a historical character.


yet your book is not credible and provides no evidence at all for Abraham. Why? plagiarized is the correct answer.

 

[McBell]

Let me get you a bottle.


History of the Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skeptical scholars account for the many similarities between the Qur'an and the Jewish and Hebrew Scriptures by saying that Muhammad was teaching what he believed to be a universal history, as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels - as well as his exposure to the Hanif tradition by way of his paternal-grandfather, Abdul Muttalib.

*yawn*
still ignoring my points.

so much for your alleged superior intellect.

 

[outhouse]

*yawn*
still ignoring my points.

so much for your alleged superior intellect.

I understand you do not have the intellect to understand the substantiated and sources claim that the books are plagiarized mythology.


. as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels - as well as his exposure to the Hanif tradition by way of his paternal-grandfather, Abdul Muttalib.

 

[paarsurrey]

*yawn*
still ignoring my points.

so much for your alleged superior intellect.

Just an ordinary person obsessed with History and Historians.

I appreciate your point.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I give below The Holy Quran : Chapter 88: Al-Ghashiyah: [3]

[88:21] And at the earth, how it is spread out?
[88:22] Admonish, therefore, for thou art but an admonisher;
[88:23] Thou hast no authority to compel them.
[88:24] But whoever turns away and disbelieves,
[88:25] Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.
[88:26] Unto Us surely is their return,
[88:27] Then, surely, it is for Us to call them to account.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online


Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.


Regard

 

[McBell]

I understand you do not have the intellect to understand the substantiated and sources claim that the books are plagiarized mythology.


. as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels - as well as his exposure to the Hanif tradition by way of his paternal-grandfather, Abdul Muttalib.

*yawn*
bold empty claims do not support bold empty claims.

Again, so much for your alleged superior intellect.

 

[McBell]

Just an ordinary person obsessed with History and Historians.

I appreciate your point.

Regards

I disagree.
He does have a valid question.

The question, however valid, is NOT the refutation he claims it is.

Why he has stubbornly ground his heels into the dirt to maintain his false bravado is beyond me.

 

[outhouse]

I disagree.
He does have a valid question.

The question, however valid, is NOT the refutation he claims it is.

Why he has stubbornly ground his heels into the dirt to maintain his false bravado is beyond me.

Either you support biblical literalism as correct, or you do not.


You do not wish to lay your grievance out in detail, while hypocritically claiming I am doing just that.

 

[outhouse]

Just an ordinary person obsessed with History and Historians.

I appreciate your point.

Regards

No it is called the study of what happened in the past, and im sorry your literal interpretation of mythology as real, is not credible and justified as pseudo history

But these are facts.

Adam and eve are considered part of creation mythology. Not literal history.

yet you view them as literal history when they factually have no historicity as ever existing

 

[paarsurrey]

Reference to the point raised in post #478 by friend, idav.

I would say that region has had its share of dictators that might resemble Abraham and its conquests for the holy land. How many have claimed rights to those lands these past thousands of years. Land promised to Abraham and still not given to him very easily, struggling for these lands even in the bible with gods direct help.

Quran does not mention of such Abraham who was promised any real estate or lands and who hankered after occupying lands as you have mentioned above perhaps from Bible.

Quran mention Ibrahim who was a righteous person and had a different character. There is one chapter in Quran named after Ibrahim. I would like to quote from it here:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 14: Ibrahim [3]

[14:21] And that is not at all hard for Allah.
[14:22] They shall all appear before Allah; then shall the weak say to those who behaved proudly: ‘Surely, we were your followers; can you not then avail us aught against Allah’s punishment?’ They will say, ‘If Allah had guided us, we would, surely, have guided you. Butit is now equal for us whether we show impatience or remain patient: there is no way of escape for us.’
[14:23] And when the matter is decided, Satan will say, ‘Allah promised you a promise of truth, but I promised you and failed you. And I had no power over you except that I called you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame your own selves. I cannot succour you nor can you succour me. I have already disclaimed your associating me with God. For the wrongdoers there shall, surely, be a grievous punishment.’
[14:24] And those who believe and do good works will be admitted into Gardens through which rivers flow, wherein they will abide by the command of their Lord. Their greeting therein will be ‘Peace’.
[14:25] Dost thou not see how Allah sets forth the similitude of a good word? It is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches reach into heaven.
[14:26] It brings forth its fruit at all times by the command of its Lord. And Allah sets forth similitudes for men that they may reflect.
[14:27] And the case of an evil word is like that of an evil tree, which is uprooted from above the earth and has no stability.
[14:28] Allah strengthens the believers with the word that is firmly established, both in the present life and in the Hereafter; and Allah lets the wrongdoers go astray. And Allah does what He wills.
[14:29] Dost thou not see those who changed Allah’s favour into ingratitude and landed their people into the abode of ruin —
[14:30] Which is Hell? They shall burn therein; and an evil place of rest is that.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online


Regards

 

[Aamer]

It happens when one is as guilty of the charge one levels at others.
Funny thing is, he does it while claiming to "know better" and is in complete denial about the whole thing.

So much for logic and reason. eh?

Assumptions. I believe the Quran is the word of God because of the mathematical code it contains, scientific truths, logical nature, lack of contradictions and many other reasons. NOT because it's a historical document. So if you want to talk about logic and reason, I'd be happy to explain the reasons for my faith in the Quran, but I'm not sure this is the thread for it. But things other than "historical facts" can factor into ones ability to reason and use logic. Peace.

 

[Aamer]

Your factually wrong.

The bible is not a history book, yet it is used by scholars

Why not Koran? so its all mythology and not historical events that ever really took place?

Scholars of what? You can't even prove a historic Moses or Jesus even existed. Heck, you can't even prove KINGS such as Daniel & Solomon existed. What were the exact dates? So you're going to tell me that "scholars" use this so it's more reliable than the Quran? What's your point. And while none of this can be historically proven, it doesn't necessarily mean it's mythology and never happened. They couldn't prove that OJ Simpson killed his wife. Does that mean it never happened? It's just mythology? No, it probably happened. We don't know the details and couldn't PROVE it but yeah maybe he did kill her. Your logic is flawed.

 

[Aamer]

The Quran | History of Islam

The Quran refers to historical events from which one can receive guidance and gather wisdom.


So the book lies, or you are mistaken?

Neither. The book says what it says. We know no details beyond what the book says though. Someone like me, who believes that God authored the Quran, believes every word. No more. No less. Someone like you, who thinks Muhammad made it up, has no reason to believe it or take it as historical fact. True?

 

[Aamer]

Let me get you a bottle.


History of the Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skeptical scholars account for the many similarities between the Qur'an and the Jewish and Hebrew Scriptures by saying that Muhammad was teaching what he believed to be a universal history, as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels - as well as his exposure to the Hanif tradition by way of his paternal-grandfather, Abdul Muttalib.

From an objective point of view, what you're saying is entirely possible. The other possibility is that if the scriptures were sent from the same God, they would contain similar stories and a lot of the same names. Why are you only looking at one possibility?

Oh btw, "Hyrpocrite Historian Boy" (your new nickname), there's no such thing as the Hanif tradition, HISTORICALLY speaking... There's no evidence that such a group ever existed. Never mind proof, there's not even any reliable EVIDENCE! It's most likely a fairy tale made up by Muslims who wanted to create an Abraham link to Mecca. But we're not all that concerned with FACTS, are we Hypocrite Historian Boy?

 

[paarsurrey]

Assumptions. I believe the Quran is the word of God because of the mathematical code it contains, scientific truths, logical nature, lack of contradictions and many other reasons. NOT because it's a historical document. So if you want to talk about logic and reason, I'd be happy to explain the reasons for my faith in the Quran, but I'm not sure this is the thread for it. But things other than "historical facts" can factor into ones ability to reason and use logic. Peace.

You are free to mention reason and logic; and I think it is best suited to this "Religious Education Forum" and this thread.
Others could have different reasons and logic though.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Scholars of what? .

Historical and biblical scholars.

You can't even prove a historic Moses or Jesus even existed. Heck, you can't even prove KINGS such as Daniel & Solomon existed. What were the exact dates?

That's right it is mythology in some cases

David may have existed, but as written it is mythology.


But that does not mean that accurate history cannot be pulled from the text.


Unlike your book where no credible history can be pulled and it is all mythology, because it is plagiarized mythology.

 

[outhouse]

there's no such thing as the Hanif tradition, HISTORICALLY speaking

Your embarrassing yourself again, with a lack of knowledge.



hanif



Definition: In Islamic tradition, a hanif is any Arabian monotheist before the time of Islam. Muslims believe that the monotheism of a hanif descends from the time of Abraham, also a hanif, but independently of Judaism, Christianity or Islam.

 

[outhouse]

In The Name Of Allah - Hanif


Hanif:-







It is the quality of being a monotheist in the face of paganism, 3:67.




It appears to have been used earlier by Jews and Christians in reference to 'pagans' and applied to followers of an old Hellenized Syro-Arabian religion and was used to taunt early Muslims.




The term Hanif is used 12 times in the Quran; 8 times in reference to Abraham (Ibrahim) who is the only person to have been explicity identified with the term.




Abraham (Ibrahim) is mentioned in the Quran as a Hanif, being a prophet predating the Judeo-Christian traditions, who rejected polytheism and pantheism for monotheism.




2: 135 They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (to salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the true [Hanifan] and he joined not gods with Allah."




3:67 "Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian but a 'Hanif', a Muslim, one who is not among the idol-worshippers."




3: 95 Say: "Allah speaketh the truth: follow the religion of Abraham [Hanifan] the sane in faith; he was not of the pagans."




4: 125 Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah does good and follows the way of Abraham the true in faith [Hanifan] ? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.




10:104 Say: "O ye men! if ye are in doubt as to my religion (behold!) I worship not what ye worship other than Allah But I worship Allah Who will take your souls (at death): I am commanded to be (in the ranks) of the Believers.


So your book made up this hanif ?

More mythology?