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Is rebirth good or a bad thing ?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I don't know what the reality is in the resurrection myself. It may be a combination of symbolic and just plain being wrong by the writers of these Gospels. In Luke it is presented like He is physical, with Christ saying He is flesh, and eating a fish. As the Gospels vary in their detail of this, I doubt the presentation that Christ was in the flesh. It does seem literal in that case, but is history being presented accurately? Then puzzlingly the same author who wrote Luke according to scholars, in Acts Christ floats up to heaven. That is symbolic to me. It is really confusing.
I don't think the resurrection stories are symbolic, I think they are just fabricated stories. Why they were fabricated nobody knows.

Then Abdu'l-Baha tries to make the resurrection symbolic, rather than coming right out and saying it never happened. He said that Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden never really happened so why not say the resurrection never happened? Such is his way, he cannot just be direct and say that the Bible stories are false.

I also don't think that Acts 1:9-11 is symbolic, I think it is simply false. Perhaps it reflects the hopes of the author, but I think it is perhaps the worst passage in the entire NT because Christians use it to believe the same Jesus is going to return to earth, and it has misled millions of people.

Imo, the resurrection stories have also misled millions of people, but at least they have not caused people to turn away from Christ when He returned in another man, so in that sense they are harmless.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What is your rationale of believing that His Revelation is the history of His cause, what He accomplished on His 40-year mission on earth? Maybe we can learn from each other or maybe not. If not, nothing is lost.
I believe that because of the way He separated His own self, His Revelation, and His words in that passage:

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

His Self can be seen in the history of His cause, since the history reveals His character, but the history is evidence in itself.
How did these kind of subjects I'm seeing here in a thread called "Is rebirth a good or bad thing?"?
It got here because someone on this thread said that Baha'u'llah was not the return of Christ, insisting that the real Christ is yet to return.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I don't think the resurrection stories are symbolic, I think they are just fabricated stories. Why they were fabricated nobody knows.
4 different authors were outright fabricating? It would be more likely that they are giving versions of a garbled story that was passed down to them.

Like I said, how can we really know the reality of the whole thing? I believe that Abdu'l-Baha revealed the truth of what the Resurrection really was, and the Bible presents some garbled versions that differed from each other. What the heck happened I don't know.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I believe that because of the way He separated His own self, His Revelation, and His words in that passage:

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

His Self can be seen in the history of His cause, since the history reveals His character, but the history is evidence in itself.
I didn't learn anything in what you just said, I will just let it go now. You see some subtlety I don't see.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
4 different authors were outright fabricating? It would be more likely that they are giving versions of a garbled story that was passed down to them.
Either one of those makes sense, but then where did the garbled story come from? Someone had to tell the story in the first place so why did they tell the story?
Like I said, how can we really know the reality of the whole thing? I believe that Abdu'l-Baha revealed the truth of what the Resurrection really was, and the Bible presents some garbled versions that differed from each other. What the heck happened I don't know.
Abdu'l-Baha revealed the truth of what probably happened after Jesus died, but I do not like the way he did it, taking what was supposed to be a true story and making it symbolic. I don't like what he did, not any more than @CG Didymus likes it.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Either one of those makes sense, but then where did the garbled story come from? Someone had to tell the story in the first place so why did thye tell the story?
Well, okay, I get what you are saying. Why do you think someone fabricated the story? Did someone think that the story of Jesus needed a fabrication to prove something? It is most confusing.
Abdu'l-Baha revealed the truth of what probably happened after Jesus died, but I do not like the way he did it, taking what was supposed to be a true story and making it symbolic. I don't like what he did, not any more than @CG Didymus likes it.
It's true that one element of the story was mentioned, the improbability of Jesus flying up to a literal heaven. But nothing else that I can recall. He left most of elements of the stories a total mystery. There was no symbolic explanation anywhere of the elements of those stories, including the flying off into heaven I don't think. But it is not that hard for us to infer. He went up to a spiritual heaven. Not recognizing Christ by some could be inferred as encountering a spirit, but then you come to Christ declaring to them that He was flesh, and ate a fish. How is that symbolic? The eating a fish could be reference to a fish being used as a symbol for Christ in the early church, but not the declaration by him in Luke that He was flesh and bones when they thought they saw a ghost.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well, okay, I get what you are saying. Why do you think someone fabricated the story? Did someone think that the story of Jesus needed a fabrication to prove something? It is most confusing.
I have no idea why someone would have fabricated the resurrection stories. Only those who wrote it could know that but we cannot ask them now.
It's true that one element of the story was mentioned, the improbability of Jesus flying up to a literal heaven. But nothing else that I can recall. He left most of elements of the stories a total mystery. There was no symbolic explanation anywhere of the elements of those stories, including the flying off into heaven I don't think. But it is not that hard for us to infer. He went up to a spiritual heaven. Not recognizing Christ by some could be inferred as encountering a spirit, but then you come to Christ declaring to them that He was flesh, and ate a fish. How is that symbolic? The eating a fish could be reference to a fish being used as a symbol for Christ in the early church, but not the declaration by him in Luke that He was flesh and bones when they thought they saw a ghost.
I was referring to the resurrection stories. By assigning a meaning other than the commonly believed literal meaning, Abdu'l-Baha was saying what he thinks really happened, so he was not saying it was a mystery.

“Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection."

 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
I have no idea why someone would have fabricated the resurrection stories. Only those who wrote it could know that but we cannot ask them now.
The oldest gospel is the Gospel of Mark dated as early as 64 C.E., and its original ended with 16:8. Before this book, preaching and teaching were structured from the Didache that is dated as early as 50 C.E. Neither of these writings preceed Paul, so his influence can easily be believed, and their dating could stretch as far as 120 C.E.

The two writings that possibly preceed Paul are the Passion Narrative (30-60 C.E.) and the Lost Sayings of Q (40-80).

More can be learned about these and other early writings here:
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Believing in the existence of rebirth after death, is rebirth good, or a bad thing ? what is your viewpoint on rebirth ?

Kindly: please do refrain replying to the question if you don't want to believe in the existence of rebirth after death.
Neither good nor bad, just action, reaction
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
Believing in the existence of rebirth after death, is rebirth good, or a bad thing ? what is your viewpoint on rebirth ?

Kindly: please do refrain replying to the question if you don't want to believe in the existence of rebirth after death.
The Divine incarnates, takes on a body

Hence

Rebirth can't be good nor bad, assuming the Divine is beyond duality
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I have no idea why someone would have fabricated the resurrection stories. Only those who wrote it could know that but we cannot ask them now.

I was referring to the resurrection stories. By assigning a meaning other than the commonly believed literal meaning, Abdu'l-Baha was saying what he thinks really happened, so he was not saying it was a mystery.

“Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection."

There is also a first part, and there are things in there that I forgot about:

QUESTION: WHAT IS the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer: The resurrection of the Manifestations of God is not of the body. All that pertains to Them — all Their states and conditions, all that They do, found, teach, interpret, illustrate, and instruct — is of a mystical and spiritual character and does not belong to the realm of materiality.

Such is the case of Christ’s coming from heaven. It has been explicitly stated in numerous passages of the Gospel that the Son of man came down from heaven, or is in heaven, or will go up to heaven. Thus in John 6:38 it is said: “For I came down from heaven”, and in John 6:42 it is recorded: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”, and in John 3:13 it is stated: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Consider how it is said that the Son of man is in heaven, even though at that time Christ was dwelling upon the earth. Consider likewise that it explicitly says that Christ came from heaven, although He came from the womb of Mary and His body was born of her. It is therefore clear that the assertion that the Son of man came down from heaven has a mystical rather than a literal meaning, and is a spiritual rather than a material event. The meaning is that though in appearance Christ was born of the womb of Mary, yet in reality He came from heaven, the seat of the Sun of Truth that shines in the divine realm of the supernal Kingdom. And since it is established that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the divine Kingdom, His disappearance into the earth for three days must also have a mystical rather than a literal meaning. In the same manner, His resurrection from the bosom of the earth is a mystical matter and expresses a spiritual rather than a material condition. And His ascension to heaven, likewise, is spiritual and not material in nature.

Aside from this, it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move.

We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation — indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy did not grasp the meaning of the Gospels and did not comprehend this mystery, it has been claimed that religion is opposed to science, for among other things the ascension of Christ in a physical body to the material heavens is contrary to the mathematical sciences. But when the truth of this matter is clarified and this symbol is explained, it is in no way contradicted by science but rather affirmed by both science and reason.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions

I don't know about you, but I think it is impressive that He was asked a question and immediately without reflection gave this answer and recalled those passages from the Bible. I'm too tired to say anything else right now. This is a little different from the old reference library because there is a new translation relatively recently of Some Answered Questions. I used Ocean 2.0 for this quotation, not either reference library. But the new reference library would be the same.

I'll have something more to say tomorrow. I'm too tired.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Well, okay, I get what you are saying. Why do you think someone fabricated the story? Did someone think that the story of Jesus needed a fabrication to prove something? It is most confusing.
But the Bible is filled with "miracles" that show the power of God.

1 Kings 17:17-24 English Standard Version
Elijah Raises the Widow's Son

17 After this the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became ill. And his illness was so severe that there was no breath left in him. 18 And she said to Elijah, “What have you against me, O man of God? You have come to me to bring my sin to remembrance and to cause the death of my son!” 19 And he said to her, “Give me your son.” And he took him from her arms and carried him up into the upper chamber where he lodged, and laid him on his own bed. 20 And he cried to the Lord, “O Lord my God, have you brought calamity even upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by killing her son?” 21 Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the Lord, “O Lord my God, let this child's life[a] come into him again.” 22 And the Lord listened to the voice of Elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived. 23 And Elijah took the child and brought him down from the upper chamber into the house and delivered him to his mother. And Elijah said, “See, your son lives.” 24 And the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God, and that the word of the Lord in your mouth is truth.”​
Then Jesus raises a couple of people, and then there was the people that came out of their graves in Jerusalem. Then there was the dying and rising myths of God/men in other religions. How could they let their God/man not be able to rise from the dead.

And the NT quotes verses that supposedly show it was prophesied. That death could not hold him, and his body would not see corruption.

If it really happened? Then forget about it. Jesus is the man. But if it was a hoax? Then what's so great about Jesus? Especially, since we don't know what else is just myth and legend.

So, did they take and hide the body? Some Baha'is here on the forum have said "yes". One even mentioned that Shoghi Effendi said something about it... but probably in a Pilgrim note or something. Now that would just be plain old fraud. But I don't see how they could have kept it a secret.

But a legend? Long after the death of Jesus? Maybe, but then they probably would have still needed to take the body from the original tomb and hide it.

So, who knows. Oh, yeah... Abdul Baha. So, for Baha'is, you have the answer.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
There is also a first part, and there are things in there that I forgot about:

QUESTION: WHAT IS the meaning of Christ’s resurrection after three days?

Answer: The resurrection of the Manifestations of God is not of the body. All that pertains to Them — all Their states and conditions, all that They do, found, teach, interpret, illustrate, and instruct — is of a mystical and spiritual character and does not belong to the realm of materiality.

Such is the case of Christ’s coming from heaven. It has been explicitly stated in numerous passages of the Gospel that the Son of man came down from heaven, or is in heaven, or will go up to heaven. Thus in John 6:38 it is said: “For I came down from heaven”, and in John 6:42 it is recorded: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”, and in John 3:13 it is stated: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Consider how it is said that the Son of man is in heaven, even though at that time Christ was dwelling upon the earth. Consider likewise that it explicitly says that Christ came from heaven, although He came from the womb of Mary and His body was born of her. It is therefore clear that the assertion that the Son of man came down from heaven has a mystical rather than a literal meaning, and is a spiritual rather than a material event. The meaning is that though in appearance Christ was born of the womb of Mary, yet in reality He came from heaven, the seat of the Sun of Truth that shines in the divine realm of the supernal Kingdom. And since it is established that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the divine Kingdom, His disappearance into the earth for three days must also have a mystical rather than a literal meaning. In the same manner, His resurrection from the bosom of the earth is a mystical matter and expresses a spiritual rather than a material condition. And His ascension to heaven, likewise, is spiritual and not material in nature.

Aside from this, it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move.

We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation — indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy did not grasp the meaning of the Gospels and did not comprehend this mystery, it has been claimed that religion is opposed to science, for among other things the ascension of Christ in a physical body to the material heavens is contrary to the mathematical sciences. But when the truth of this matter is clarified and this symbol is explained, it is in no way contradicted by science but rather affirmed by both science and reason.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions

I don't know about you, but I think it is impressive that He was asked a question and immediately without reflection gave this answer and recalled those passages from the Bible. I'm too tired to say anything else right now. This is a little different from the old reference library because there is a new translation relatively recently of Some Answered Questions. I used Ocean 2.0 for this quotation, not either reference library. But the new reference library would be the same.

I'll have something more to say tomorrow. I'm too tired.
I felt I needed to quote my own post so I could see that post myself.

One thing all three Gospels had in common was that Christ rose on the third day. Likewise that he was put in a tomb, hence the reference to Christ "disappear[ing] into the earth". The reference to "it has been established by science that the material heaven is a limitless space, void and empty, wherein countless stars and planets move." is an allusion to Christ ascending to heaven in Acts, which is the only place where that is stated, so I don't know if that passag is bogus or not, and the absurdity of it being literal is addressed well.

However, it is frustrating that there is no addressing of this passage:

24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
(King James Bible, Luke)

The first aspect of this passage though,, is that it seems to say that Christ magically appeared out of nowhere. On the other hand Christ said He said He had flesh and bones. My overall impression given this information is that this section of Luke is bogus. John also says:

20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Again He appears to appear out of nowhere. Then it is asserted by Christ that He had a body. Another bogus passage, I believe.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Tribulation and trial are always present, some are more severe than others. It's a process and it isn't always easy. It's rarely as easy as I'd sometimes like it to be, I mean. The wars seem to be ongoing, some of which we don't even acknowledge as people who live apart from. If the difference is between truth and error and God represents truth, and Satan represents error and deceit, then it becomes more evident the direction we need to go and follow.
Yes, 'tribulation and trial always present' that is why we are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Yes, 'on-going wars' as we are forewarned in chapter 24 of Matthew, and chapter 21 of Luke
Yes, to me Jesus is the Truth ( example ) we should follow
The truth as found in Jesus' New Commandment found at John 13:34-35
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has
In other words, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
Seems the problem is: people ignoring the direction we need to go and follow
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't think the resurrection stories are symbolic, I think they are just fabricated stories. Why they were fabricated nobody knows.
...........................................................................................................................................................................................
Jesus knows why !
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, a small sample of what Jesus will be doing on a GRAND GLOBAL scale
Jesus resurrected No one to Heaven, all his resurrections were healthy physical earthly resurrections restoring to life on Earth
This is why Jesus promised that humble meek people will inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
In Heaven God's will is No sickness and No death in Heaven, so we are asking God for those same good-healthy conditions to come and exist on Earth ( God's will be done here on Earth as it is done in -> Heaven....... )
This is why we are invited to pray to God for His kingdom to come ! ( thy kingdom come...... )
Please notice 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 because Jesus will bring an end to death on Earth - Isaiah 25:8
 

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Yes, 'tribulation and trial always present' that is why we are all invited to ask God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Yes, 'on-going wars' as we are forewarned in chapter 24 of Matthew, and chapter 21 of Luke
Yes, to me Jesus is the Truth ( example ) we should follow
The truth as found in Jesus' New Commandment found at John 13:34-35
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has
In other words, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the old Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
Seems the problem is: people ignoring the direction we need to go and follow
Bible aside for a moment, truth matters as does discernment and ability to identify deception.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................
20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Again He appears to appear out of nowhere. Then it is asserted by Christ that He had a body. Another bogus passage, I believe.
God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave (Acts 2:27,32) back to his original heavenly spirit body
Thus, resurrected Jesus needed to use materialized bodies to appear to his followers - John 20:15 - that is why he was mistaken to be a gardener
What doubting Thomas saw was a materialized body (just like the others saw at Luke 24:15-31)
Thomas exclaimed in front of Jesus ' My Lord and my God! ' but that does not mean directly directed to Jesus but to the God of Jesus
Don't forget Jesus' earlier words found at John 20:17 B what Jesus said about his God and his Father _________________________
Plus, notice how John concludes at John 20:33 that resurrected Christ is the Son of God
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Bible aside for a moment, truth matters as does discernment and ability to identify deception.
Good point above about ' truth matters '
Pilate spoke about ' what is truth ? '
but Pilate was speaking about truth in general
Whereas Jesus was speaking about ' religious truth ' as found in Scripture ' God's Word is 'religious' truth ' - John 17:17
Jesus used logical reasoning on Scripture as the basis for his teachings explaining and expounding Scripture for us
Jesus was using logic to identify deception such as the false religious teachings of the Pharisees - Matthew chapter 23
Jesus not only pronounced many 'woes' against them but also gave his reasons why for those many 'woes'
 

Isabella Lecour

amor aeternus est
Believing in the existence of rebirth after death, is rebirth good, or a bad thing ? what is your viewpoint on rebirth ?

Kindly: please do refrain replying to the question if you don't want to believe in the existence of rebirth after death.
It could be good. It could be bad. I believe it is the nature of life, a cycle of death and life...not so much a rebirth but a return to life. And in life, outcomes could be any result in that there is no guarantee of a life lived with the least amount of pain. I'm deeply conflicted over the pursuit of a life with the least amount of pain, be it emotional, physical or spiritual. I find that such a life is unenlightening.

For me, everything I do has a chance to impact me in a future life. That chances my behavior here as my thoughts are also future focused. My belief in a return to life lowers my suicidal idealisation. I'm unsure if such an effect would be widespread if such belief was culturally accepted. One problematic thing I've noticed is the drift of thoughts that turn towards who one was once before. It's a closed door for a reason and people tend to pry. Except I may be wrong that it's a closed door. But perhaps that's more symbolising of the need to let go of the past and the past selves.

When I consider last life memories, there is something that survives, some kind of drive, a message, a task to complete. It is not a complete erasure of ego and memory. Identity being mainly ego is fluid and changes over a lifetime. Ego changes, so that it's perceived loss isn't that big of deal to me. I do wonder what sort of transformation death brings to consciousness. Is it there where we faces the scales? Do we truly review our life in perfect 20/20 hindsight? But do we learn, do we grow in this state of death, do we prepare again for life? I can only guess. But I suspect we are the Universe experiencing ourselves in infinite combinations. Or we're in a tutorial world before the big game. :shrug:
 
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