Is rebirth good or a bad thing ?

[Secret Chief]

I believe that sounds confused.

Well @Heyo found my post informative and I gave it my best shot!

 

[Twilight Hue]

So, what gets reborn if there is no soul (or whatever different word means the same thing)?

Nothing gets reborn as there was no actual beginning in the first place.

Buddhism addresses rise and fall of form and the phenomenon of illusory nature of what people refer to as having a beginning and ending. It's where koans like original face encourages insight into these type of questions.

 

[Jimmy]

Only one man has the power to be “reborn”. I wouldn’t really call it being reborn though because when he dies and all of existence ends. When he is “reborn” a new existence begins. So it’s really not being a reborn.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Believing in the existence of rebirth after death, is rebirth good, or a bad thing ? what is your viewpoint on rebirth ?

Kindly: please do refrain replying to the question if you don't want to believe in the existence of rebirth after death.

Since rebirth or reincarnation is what happens to almost all of us, we should all just hope that it is a good thing. Actually, spending many lifetimes on Earth is the only way a human being can achieve perfection. Saying only one life is enough, is like saying you could get a PhD by spending one year in elementary school - it just will not cut it. Once you achieve perfection, you are able to take on greater roles anywhere in the universe.

 

[Trailblazer]

Comparative religion:

Hinduism/Buddhism: You messed up - repeat class.
Christianity/Islam: You messed up - eternal torture.
Atheism/Agnosticism: You messed up - no, you didn't, instant Nirvana for everyone.

Baha'i: You messed up - By the grace of God you are forgiven and can continue to progress in the spiritual worlds after you die and leave this world.

Baha'is believe that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore God can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, anyone He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it.

Two Contrasting Views on Life After Death

The Eastern religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism subscribe to the doctrine of reincarnation—the belief that all human souls are predestined to recurrent and unending cycles of birth, life, death, and rebirth. This is in contrast to the Abrahamic faiths—Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Bahá’í Faith—which generally believe man has only one chance on earth, with no hope of return after physical death.

Bahá’ís maintain reincarnation is not possible because the spiritual worlds are infinite in their range, and disembodied souls progress towards perfection by migrating from their respective habitations to worlds higher up. Thus, there is no need for souls to reincarnate (or return repeatedly to earth) to gain perfection.

The Bahá’í Concept of Life After Death

While Bahá’í teachings on life after death are similar, in many respects, to those held by the other Abrahamic faiths, there are also significant differences.

A common belief amongst all Abrahamic faiths is that a spiritual realm exists beyond this earthly plane. A belief in the existence of heaven and hell is also commonly held by these faiths. The Bahá’í version, though, is more elaborate. It discounts any notion that the places of existence for the human soul are limited only to the three realms of earth, heaven, and hell (or four if the doctrine of purgatory, subscribed to by some Christian denominations, is included).

For Bahá’ís, the afterlife realm is neither two worlds—heaven and hell—nor three—heaven, purgatory, and hell—but an infinite number of spiritual worlds. Each soul settles into that celestial realm that best aligns with his level of spiritual attainment while on earth—the more developed souls inhabiting worlds closer to the world of God and the least developed being furthest away.

https://owlcation.com/humanities/Heaven-Hell-and-the-Hereafter

 

[Trailblazer]

Since rebirth or reincarnation is what happens to almost all of us, we should all just hope that it is a good thing. Actually, spending many lifetimes on Earth is the only way a human being can achieve perfection. Saying only one life is enough, is like saying you could get a PhD by spending one year in elementary school - it just will not cut it. Once you achieve perfection, you are able to take on greater roles anywhere in the universe.

Your belief in reincarnation assumes that the only way we can progress is on Earth, but that is not a fact, only a belief, a belief that I don't think makes any logical sense since it assumes that living on Earth is the only was we can progress.

Your belief also assumes that we need to achieve perfection in order to exist in the spiritual worlds beyond this world, but that is not necessarily true.

In short, I don't think there is any basis for a belief in reincarnation.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Your belief in reincarnation assumes that the only way we can progress is on Earth, but that is not a fact, only a belief, a belief that I don't think makes any logical sense since it assumes that living on Earth is the only was we can progress.

Your belief also assumes that we need to achieve perfection in order to exist in the spiritual worlds beyond this world, but that is not necessarily true.

In short, I don't think there is any basis for a belief in reincarnation.

I am sure there are other ways to progress, but they are slower. But the best way to progress is through hard, difficult lives accompanied by moments of happiness but mostly many periods of pain and suffering. This kind of hard life is only available on Earth (or perhaps some other Earth like planet).

You will soon find out about the truth regarding reincarnation when the Christ returns very soon.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I guess I would first ask "is rebirth a thing." Only then could I wonder whether it was good or bad.

My experience is that this is the only me there's ever been. If I were to assume that rebirth was actually a thing, there ought to have been more -- I mean there's no particular reason why this life should have been my first one, in a 13 billion year-old universe. This is true of all the people I have ever known -- not one claims to have been Napoleon or a salamander in a previous life.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am sure there are other ways to progress, but they are slower. But the best way to progress is through hard, difficult lives accompanied by moments of happiness but mostly many periods of pain and suffering. This kind of hard life is only available on Earth (or perhaps some other Earth like planet).

I agree that the best way to progress is through hard, difficult lives accompanied by moments of happiness but mostly many periods of pain and suffering, and that this kind of hard life is only available on Earth. However, I don't believe we will get more than one opportunity to progress on Earth. Why should God give us that? If our lives are cut short so we miss the full opportunity then I believe there will be a recompense from God in the spiritual world.

You will soon find out about the truth regarding reincarnation when the Christ returns very soon.

Jesus did not teach reincarnation....

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation? | Church Blog

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation?. Find out about it in our monastery blog. We have been writing about Christianity, church history, church products and crafts, the lives of the great ascetics, etc.

catalog.obitel-minsk.com

Good luck waiting for Jesus to return, along with all the other Christians. You'll need it.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I agree that the best way to progress is through hard, difficult lives accompanied by moments of happiness but mostly many periods of pain and suffering, and that this kind of hard life is only available on Earth. However, I don't believe we will get more than one opportunity to progress on Earth. Why should God give us that? If our lives are cut short so we miss the full opportunity then I believe there will be a recompense from God in the spiritual world.

Jesus did not teach reincarnation....

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation? | Church Blog

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation?. Find out about it in our monastery blog. We have been writing about Christianity, church history, church products and crafts, the lives of the great ascetics, etc.

catalog.obitel-minsk.com

I don't think the Christ will come as Jesus, whether Jesus taught reincarnation or not.

Good luck waiting for Jesus to return, along with all the other Christians. You'll need it.

Thanks, but I am not a Christian. I believe the return of the Christ will happen very soon, perhaps as early as next year.

 

[Twilight Hue]

....... I believe the return of the Christ will happen very soon, perhaps as early as next year.

I feel like my duty is to please beseech you not to sell your house or give away all your belongings.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think the Christ will come as Jesus, whether Jesus taught reincarnation or not.

Nor do I believe that, as I think you already know.

Thanks, but I am not a Christian. I believe the return of the Christ will happen very soon, perhaps as early as next year.

Let's say you are correct. How would you recognize the man who is the return of Christ, I mean how would you know it was Him?

 

[Heyo]

Your belief in reincarnation assumes that the only way we can progress is on Earth, but that is not a fact, only a belief, a belief that I don't think makes any logical sense since it assumes that living on Earth is the only was we can progress.

We have started this thread by assuming that somehow our personality can survive death - which makes no logical sense. Of course, there will only follow assumptions of the same quality. E.g. assuming there are multiple "spiritual realms".

 

[Trailblazer]

We have started this thread by assuming that somehow our personality can survive death - which makes no logical sense.

Why doesn't that make logical sense?

 

[Heyo]

Why doesn't that make logical sense?

Why doesn't it make logical sense to be rebirthed on Earth?
The answer is the same for both, they are beliefs without evidence.

 

[GoodAttention]

I agree that the best way to progress is through hard, difficult lives accompanied by moments of happiness but mostly many periods of pain and suffering, and that this kind of hard life is only available on Earth. However, I don't believe we will get more than one opportunity to progress on Earth. Why should God give us that? If our lives are cut short so we miss the full opportunity then I believe there will be a recompense from God in the spiritual world.

Why would a recompense from God for a life cut short be made up in the spiritual world, when it should logically be made up in the living one.

Jesus did not teach reincarnation....

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation? | Church Blog

Did Jesus Christ Teach Reincarnation?. Find out about it in our monastery blog. We have been writing about Christianity, church history, church products and crafts, the lives of the great ascetics, etc.

catalog.obitel-minsk.com

No, but he did achieve moksha and liberation of samasara as evidenced by his resurrection (with a 3 day gap). It is not to say he avoids discussing resurrection at all, but for his target audience he taught ot the Kingdom of God, where all who are liberated from samsara (not in those words) can join the him and the Father in heaven.

Good luck waiting for Jesus to return, along with all the other Christians. You'll need it.

This is later church doctrine.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Let's say you are correct. How would you recognize the man who is the return of Christ, I mean how would you know it was Him?

This time the Christ will 'come in his glory', not as some regular human being. I am sure he will manage to convey his authenticity in some convincing way. Even skeptics like you will have no difficulty recognizing him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why doesn't it make logical sense to be rebirthed on Earth?
The answer is the same for both, they are beliefs without evidence.

I was asking why it does not make logical sense that somehow our personality can survive death.
There is no evidence for that belief since nobody has died and come back but that doesn't mean it doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would a recompense from God for a life cut short be made up in the spiritual world, when it should logically be made up in the living one.

Recompense would have to be made in the spiritual world of one's life was cut short in this world.

 

[Trailblazer]

This time the Christ will 'come in his glory', not as some regular human being. I am sure he will manage to convey his authenticity in some convincing way. Even skeptics like you will have no difficulty recognizing him.

I am 100% certain that Baha'u'llah was the promised return of Christ.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe as we all are.
Our beliefs will never change reality, whatever it is.