My favorite line: God as an archetypal summit of one's own Consciousness
Yes, that is something I chew on all the time in looking at what the role of the externalized deity forms have played in our human evolution. This is the problem I have with the sterility and the harsh critical lens of modernity, is that while they may be able to 'debunk' the literalist perspective, "These are not factual! Where's the evidence?", they fail to grasp that what they represent in us is in fact quite real.
In fact, they are embedded within our individual psyches, though our collective psyches, the collective unconscious inherited through all of those who came before us, which played a direct role in the evolution of who and what we are. To deny those, to simply jettison them as "nothing but fantasy" is highly ignorant.
I liken this to our own personal histories. I had previously struggled with disowning my own choices and beliefs and practices I had adopted in my youth to try to find that deeper truth within myself. "What an idiot I was joining that fundamentalist church", for example. Yet, the truth be told, that younger self and his choices, brought a lot of important lessons and growth into who I am today, and who that person was informs who I am. It wasn't just errors, but truths that I discovered in my younger, more naive self.
The same thing can be said for my time in the atheist deconstructive period of time. Each of these stages contributed import lessons, even though there were errors at each level along with it. That does not mean "I was wrong", end of story. Not at all. Same thing with our mythic pasts. True, the gods aren't literal creatures, like an elusive Bigfoot, but what they spoke to in us, what we engaged in ourselves through these, is in fact very much part of the deep fabric of who we are as human beings.
To deny that aspect of them in our search for ultimate truth, is to cut off our own nose to spite our own face. Nothing good can come from that.
I watched the video and found the matrices interesting in a left hemispheric way but I find myself resistant to systems in general. Of course left/right thinking is one too. But it makes sense to me to realize that we, like every other creature with a brain, has such a division in order to pursue a meal and simultaneously avoid becoming one. The information about the hemispheres isn’t something to be made use of toward an end, only for understanding ourselves and the paradoxes that arise.
Well that is exactly it. We have to be very careful to not imagine that while we may have better, more accurate, more useful roadmaps that we have been able to compile through diligent efforts, that that means we have personally arrived at the destination. Simply having volumes of information about the ocean, doesn't mean we have actually stepped into the ocean ourselves and know from personal experience what is it to fall backwards into it and swim in it.
No amount of head knowledge can replace direct firsthand, first-person experience. But it's too easy for the thinking mind to try to usurp the role of subjective experience with it's intellectual prowess. It likes to imagine that a map of the terrain is the terrain itself. In fact I would argue that we do that as a way to avoid immersing ourselves in the experience, because doing that leads to uncertainty, and uncertainty leads the thinking mind to anxiety.
That said however, I will say that one of the true values of these maps is that to the rational mind does need to have something to look at. And while true, that in mystical states, or even in ordinary subjective experiences, that happens before and beyond the thinking, discursive mind with its world of mental constructs. The mind can't ultimately be told to shut itself off completely. That can easily lead to self-lobotomies and self-deceptions, and you end up becoming a fundamentalist denier of things like science in service of one's religious desires.
This is why I love that quote from Aurobindo so much. We need to have our feet planted firmly on the earth of sensible facts, as we aspire towards the highest reaches of our human spirit. I'm afraid rationalism itself is simply doing the exact opposite of the intellectual suicide of fundamentalists in hopes to find themselves in faith. They instead commit spiritual suicide in hopes of finding themselves in reason and the rational mind. Each is making the exact same error from opposite sides of the same coin.
The balance is faith and reason, heaven and earth, or as is the core philosophy of Tai Chi, "heaven, earth, man". There are different, supportive, and complementary energies converging in the human between them. This is where health and balance, mentally and physically and spiritual are to be found, not in pure transcendence, nor in pure reductionaim. Both are error and imbalance.
The matrix also permits of insights but I think there is a danger of it becoming a roadmap in the service of a grand narrative.
It can become that, yes. "I've found the real truth now!".
As I'm fond of saying, it's really not what we believe, but how we believe it, or how we hold our believes that really sets the stage for how much, or how little we actual understand and are able to grow through. It's not the content, as much as it is the context, I have found that is what matters. "By their fruits you shall know them," not by their details of their beliefs.
I question whether we need one at all though as a society of beings who require time and guidance to develop, without religion perhaps some kind of program is needed?
Well, this is a huge topic to be sure. The failure of religion to keep pace with modernity, has left of bit of a hole. In reality, the priest has been replaced by both the scientist to tell us the grand truths, and the psychologist to help us sort out the struggles of our interior landscapes. And all of the many things that religion as a social and cultural repository of collective symbols and stories, is being farmed out to different things these days. Like I said, it's very complex.
I am sympathetic to the traditionalist who sees a loss of meaning as a result in the modern age. Our struggle today is to try to find a cohesive replacement for it. Humanism? Consumerism? Video Games? Pharmaceuticals? And on an on. It's not simple to be sure.
My minimal involvement with any religion disposes me not to think about that but in a sense my own progress is in a sense parasitic on the Christian tradition. Without that limited, preliterate exposure who knows how I would ever have come to value reflection, intuition and insight? I’m torn.
I hear you. Recall my touching upon my own past embedded within the fundamentalist culture? Truth be told, my understanding today would not be what it is, where it not for trying to detangle my own involvement with them. It affords me insights that I otherwise would not understand. It offers me empathy with others in trying to figure out their own place on their own path to ultimate truth and meaning, fundamentalists, as well as atheists leaving religion. I get where they both are coming from, and largely why.
Even with the McGilchrist material which informs much of my worldview, I don’t try to master all the ins and outs. Nor am I a disciple looking to spread the word.
This is incredibly self-aware on your part. I too had to watchout for that tendency in myself, to find a new system to simply replace the role of the old system of "I have the real truth now. Now I can save the world!".
In reality however, I have found like the old adage goes, the more you know the more you know you don't know. Those who know little assume they have it figured out. Those who know tons, realize how little they truly understand. Along with greater knowledge, should come humility.
A personal story here. As you know I'm a fan of Integral theory, where those with insights like MacGilchrist fit well into. My first book of Ken Wilber's I read was what is considered his Magnum Opus 1,000 page Sex, Ecology, and Spirituality. I found it enormously helpful in taken all of my disparate views and understandings and giving them an incredibly cohesive framework for my mind, which had been trying to create a "big picture" view of this enormously complex landscape. I gobbled it up, read multiple books of his, etc. The maps and models really helped take this otherwise frustrated and almost apathetic mind something to stand upon rationally.
But then, I took up a mediation practice, which was the result of something I read which he quoted from some Zen teacher, "Enlightenment happens by accident, but meditation makes you accident-prone". I took that in the sense of putting yourself out into the middle of the street, so that is just what I did, metaphorically speaking of course. I took to it like a duck to water, and within a very short time I moved into deeply expansive spaces. And it was at that moment that everything shifted.
Where I had been relying on my reasoning mental mind, finding a huge reservoir of meat to sink my teeth into with Integral theory (and it is that), suddenly I saw that whole thing shift into a two-dimensional tree-like structure, where it felt like I had just added a 2nd brain on top of my 1st brain. Suddenly these models of reality were seen as mental objects, and that what is found in the meditative, subjective interior spaces of consciousness itself, illuminates pieces and aspects of these mental understandings. In other words, it creates a real, tangible, lived context, to an otherwise, theoretical mental construct and model of the world.
This is the difference between knowledge, and Truth. Truth, with the capital T, is much more illumination, than it is propositional knowledge. This is where and why spiritual development is critical towards understanding as a human. Head knowledge from the sciences and theatrical maps, are powerful tools, but they cannot and do not inform the core of our humanity. We are spiritual beings, that is before and beyond the discursive rational mind. We feel ourselves in the
atmosphere of reality. That is really where we live. And if we try to think it exclusively, we fail to swim in it and find ourselves.
I’m more interested in being than doing and question just how much one person can help another on his journey.
Amen.
In general I resist rigid categories. Still I will look around to see if I can find more from Ken Wilber in his own words. Thanks.
Yeah, I found that video from Combs to be a little disappointing, after I'd already shared it. He didn't really talk about it, but just shared other Internet users interpretations of that matrix, which were largely inaccurate to boot.
I have several books of Wilber I'd recommend, depending on where your focus is. But one I like to recommend that is relatively easy to read for his works, is a Sociable God. The preface to it alone is close to half the book, but I find the most informative. Chapters of the book I found most helpful were on "Definitions of Religion", and "Belief, Faith, Experience, and Adaptation". I draw from his insights all the time in helping myself find my way through the weeds in these terms which causes huge amounts of confusion in both discussions about these topics, and in looking at the nature of these for myself.
Great discussing these things with you.