Is religious satire ever unacceptable?

[bobhikes]

I chose yes, but only if you are in their house of worship, or holy places otherwise go for it.

You don't start a comedy routine in a synod, cathedral, temple or mosque with a service underway.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, I think you have a point there, but like you observed on another thread it looks like Islamic leaders aren't doing enough to promote reform, so....it's probably all a bit chicken and egg.

Exactly! That's exactly the situation.
We need to bust out of the pattern somehow.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I get what you're saying, and while I agree with your conclusions, I'd be willing to bet that more of the show's viewers pick up on the message that "Mormonism is stupid" than pick up on the message to "Stop persecuting people whose beliefs you don't agree with." I suspect that part of the message just goes over most people's heads. It's good to know it didn't go over yours.

No doubt with some it does, but the messages of the show tend to be very explicitly stated. In the Mormons episode, it ends with the new kid, who is Mormon, tells Stan (who tried to befriend Gary but turned on him because he was picked on over it) he's a bad person and that he has a lot of growing up to do. One of the lessons in another episode was even stated "family isn't about whose blood is in you, it's about the people you care about." It's actually uncommon for the shows moral messages to be hidden and not stated directly.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You don't start a comedy routine in a synod, cathedral, temple or mosque with a service underway.

I think even us laid-back Buddhists would get a bit irritated with that.

 

[Avi1001]

Is freedom of speech paramount when talking about religious belief, or are there circumstances in which religious satire is unacceptable?

If you think there are circumstances where religious satire is unacceptable, please describe what they are.

Very nice OP.....thnx....lets think about this from a problem solving perspective....it doesn't make sense to limit the rights of "satirists"....that would be a slippery slope.

Which are the most violent societies in the world....?

We have to deal with the crazies that cause the violence....what's the answer......as we've discussed before....fundamental societal change.....it can only come through.....education....!!!!

Society will try enforcement....but we know it does not work effectively...!

 

[Flankerl]

No.

 

[sandandfoam]

I don't think that taking the **** in a way that deeply offends others is acceptable. That doesn't mean that I would ban it.

Regarding the murders in Paris - No more than I don't think that movies cause people to commit violence I don't think that 'religion' has anything to do with the motivation of psychopathic, murderous criminals on the streets of France.

 

[mainliner]

To be honest im not sure what satire really is lol.

there's a political news comedy quiz on tv which has been going for years ...... And i still don't understand it , iv always thought it was sh!t, i think that was satire ... Idk?

 

[Avi1001]

I don't think that taking the **** in a way that deeply offends others is acceptable. That doesn't mean that I would ban it.

Regarding the murders in Paris - No more than I don't think that movies cause people to commit violence I don't think that 'religion' has anything to do with the motivation of psychopathic, murderous criminals on the streets of France.

I am trying to understand the cause....why are Muslim societies the predominant ones that have these crazies....????

 

[sandandfoam]

I am trying to understand the cause....why are Muslim societies the predominant ones that have these crazies....????

From what I understand the crazies in Paris are the products of French society. The people who blew up Canary Wharf (and many other atrocities) were the products of Irish society, Timothy McVeigh was the product of US society. Given the breadth of countries with Muslim populations I am not even sure what constitutes a muslim society. Crazies seem to emerge from every society.

 

[mainliner]

I am trying to understand the cause....why are Muslim societies the predominant ones that have these crazies....????

religious extremist.......there reasons stem from the heart of stupity .

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The people who blew up Canary Wharf (and many other atrocities) were the products of Irish society

No, Northern Irish and therefore British society.

 

[Avi1001]

religious extremist.......there reasons stem from the heart of stupity .

There are religious extremists in all societies....but only 1 way to deal with stupidity....

 

[Avi1001]

From what I understand the crazies in Paris are the products of French society. The people who blew up Canary Wharf (and many other atrocities) were the products of Irish society, Timothy McVeigh was the product of US society. Given the breadth of countries with Muslim populations I am not even sure what constitutes a muslim society. Crazies seem to emerge from every society.

Yes...you are right....since 9/11 we have been more sensitive to actions by Muslim extremists....but there are other extremists......so what would be a common strategy for combating this problem....?.....I see only one.....

 

[sandandfoam]

Yes...you are right....since 9/11 we have been more sensitive to actions by Muslim extremists....but there are other extremists......so what would be a common strategy for combating this problem....?.....I see only one.....

I think that mocking and laughing at idiotic ideologies is the best way to lance them.

 

[Katzpur]

No doubt with some it does, but the messages of the show tend to be very explicitly stated. In the Mormons episode, it ends with the new kid, who is Mormon, tells Stan (who tried to befriend Gary but turned on him because he was picked on over it) he's a bad person and that he has a lot of growing up to do. One of the lessons in another episode was even stated "family isn't about whose blood is in you, it's about the people you care about." It's actually uncommon for the shows moral messages to be hidden and not stated directly.

Yeah, I saw the episode and and I've got to agree with you. If people didn't get it, it's their problem and not the show's. I think what bothered me most about the satire itself is that it left people with a flawed perception about the real teachings of Mormonism. I know that exaggeration and caricature are what satire is all about, but you would not believe how many people I've heard tell me they know quite a bit about Mormonism because they saw this episode. And they're serious.

 

[George-ananda]

Oh really, George.......... did you see the cartoon about the woman who wore a tiny mini-skirt in the park and got raped? Look...... a list could continue to the bottom of the page, of cartoon subjects which would hurl the Western World into uproar and outrage, yet when a minority that is unpopular is picked on, it's then that we insist on freedoms.

I think that we need to tighten our parameters of decent and fair up.

So do you think a cartoon about a mini-skirted woman getting raped in the park should be banned? I don't think any such thing should be banned. Be outraged or ignore total jerks are your options but you can't do anything illegal in response. If you can't ignore jerks then you will have a tough life because there will eventually be someone ready to push that button.

What do you mean by 'tighten our parameters of decent'? More government censorship? Bad direction to go.

 

[Katzpur]

I think that mocking and laughing at idiotic ideologies is the best way to lance them.

Who gets to be the judge of what's idiotic? If all of us do, then we're really just all being insulting towards our chosen target. I'm all for people being able to laugh at themselves, but I don't think I'll ever get to the point at which I'm okay with mockery of things other people consider sacred.

 

[mainliner]

Who gets to be the judge of what's idiotic? .

your subconscious and your heart

 

[oldbadger]

What do you mean by 'tighten our parameters of decent'? More government censorship? Bad direction to go.

OK...... Yes, I would want a satire based on the rape of a woman who wore a small dress in a park to be banned. Yes, I would.
........ Or a grotesque cartoon of, say, our Queen in some horrible scenario.....
OK.... I admit it, there are many scenarios which I would want to be censored or controlled.

But in a way, George, you do agree to this. Please, let me explain........
You belong to religiousforums.com and you do agree to a much higher level of decency than I propose. If you demanded, insisted upon a totally uncontrolled level of speech and expression you probably would not, on principle, belong to such a tight;ly moderated forum.... ?