Is Science Necessary...

[Daniel Nicholson]

And if science does the same?
Here's two ---
The universe created itself before it existed
There is no reason for our being.

Please prove both, or plead the fifth.

To be fair to my original statement, if scientists want to make religious claims, then they should justify them using religion's standards of proof.

1. The universe is infinite and doesn't have a start
2. The reason for our existence is to do experiments with mice and eat birthday cake once a year. That's it.

We know this because the all time greatest scientist in the universe said so. His name was Bob and he lived 5000 years ago, and he was never wrong. And there are thousands of first hand accounts by illiterate peasants that Bob was never wrong, so we know it's true.

 

[ppp]

So the entire purpose of your existence is the satisfaction of material needs?

As opposed to?

 

[Audie]

Yes, the universe can travel faster than light. Light's speed is referenced to space - but space can go like a bat
out of hell.
There's all sorts of super-clever ideas about how the universe could create the universe - but they all needs to
acknowledge that at some point the universe didn't exist. I think the old theory of an eternal universe just dodged
the question.

I think you are very mixed up.
And no, there is no science that says that
at one time the universe did not exist.

 

[Audie]

So the entire purpose of your existence is the satisfaction of material needs?

Who says there is " purpose" besides people
who wish there is?

 

[PruePhillip]

I think you are very mixed up.
And no, there is no science that says that
at one time the universe did not exist.

The catch in your response lies in the word 'at one time' because time itself did not exist.
Time is a part of the universe. But there had to be a beginning, and a reason for a beginning.

 

[PruePhillip]

To be fair to my original statement, if scientists want to make religious claims, then they should justify them using religion's standards of proof.

1. The universe is infinite and doesn't have a start
2. The reason for our existence is to do experiments with mice and eat birthday cake once a year. That's it.

We know this because the all time greatest scientist in the universe said so. His name was Bob and he lived 5000 years ago, and he was never wrong. And there are thousands of first hand accounts by illiterate peasants that Bob was never wrong, so we know it's true.

The old idea that the universe was here forever is basically finished now. The universe isn't going to endlessly
cycle - it's accelerating away till the fabric tears apart.
In any case, and endless universe doesn't quite answer the question of how it came to be in the first place.

 

[Audie]

The catch in your response lies in the word 'at one time' because time itself did not exist.
Time is a part of the universe. But there had to be a beginning, and a reason for a beginning.

No there did not have to be a beginning.
But if you want to play that game, apply it to
your creator and its reason.

 

[Audie]

The old idea that the universe was here forever is basically finished now. The universe isn't going to endlessly
cycle - it's accelerating away till the fabric tears apart.
In any case, and endless universe doesn't quite answer the question of how it came to be in the first place.

Nonsense.
And inventing a god explains nothing.

 

[RestlessSoul]

As opposed to?

As opposed to Micah 6:8 perhaps. Or whatever else works.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Who says there is " purpose" besides people
who wish there is?

You see no purpose to your life? You think it's "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"? - (Shakespeare, Macbeth)

 

[ppp]

As opposed to Micah 6:8 perhaps. Or whatever else works.

You seem to feel very strongly about this. Why would I do that?

 

[Audie]

You see no purpose to your life? You think it's "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"? - (Shakespeare, Macbeth)

No " transcendent " thing as imagined in divers religions.

Purpose and goals are what a person makes for himself.

I certainly have those.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No there did not have to be a beginning.
But if you want to play that game, apply it to
your creator and its reason.

It's been the scientific consensus since the 1970s, when Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose presented the mathematical model, that the universe did have a beginning, the Big Bang originating from a singularity (a condition of infinite density and no dimensions, in which space and time have no meaning).

 

[Audie]

It's been the scientific consensus since the 1970s, when Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose presented the mathematical model, that the universe did have a beginning, the Big Bang originating from a singularity (a condition of infinite density and no dimensions, in which space and time have no meaning).

There was something there, in a different state
BIg bang would be a change of state, not a beginning of existence.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You seem to feel very strongly about this. Why would I do that?

Why would you want your life to have meaning, beyond the satisfaction of worldly desires? I can't answer that for you. But quite obviously, many people do want more from life than material gain.

 

[PruePhillip]

Nonsense.
And inventing a god explains nothing.

Perhaps the bible is right - we didn't invent at all.
But what is 'nonsense' ? That the universe had a 'big bang' but will never see
a 'big crunch' ?? It appears that's the case. But even if the universe did have
an endless expansion and contraction - it doesn't explain how it began and
why it began.
The question of whether God or the universe created the universe is an
article of faith.

 

[RestlessSoul]

There was something there, in a different state
BIg bang would be a change of state, not a beginning of existence.

It was the beginning of time and space. It therefore makes no sense to talk about "before", in that context. God (or the Universe itself) said, let there be light. And there was light. There was no before. There was no "was". There was not. And now there is.

 

[Audie]

Why would you want your life to have meaning, beyond the satisfaction of worldly desires? I can't answer that for you. But quite obviously, many people do want more from life than material gain.

You actually think " material gain", "satisfaction of worldly desires" is the only alternative to
pie in the sky?

 

[Audie]

Perhaps the bible is right - we didn't invent at all.
But what is 'nonsense' ? That the universe had a 'big bang' but will never see
a 'big crunch' ?? It appears that's the case. But even if the universe did have
an endless expansion and contraction - it doesn't explain how it began and
why it began.
The question of whether God or the universe created the universe is an
article of faith.

The bible is right about what?
A very substantial part of what it says
is so clearly incorrect that to try to
claim its " correct" is nonsensical.

 

[ppp]

Why would you want your life to have meaning, beyond the satisfaction of worldly desires? I can't answer that for you. But quite obviously, many people do want more from life than material gain.

Material gain is generally a reference to stuff. Money, cars, TVs, toys, etc. Neither solace nor society fall under the category of material gain. Unless you consider charity worked, contributing to build a fairer society, or being loved and loving in return to all be material gain?