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Is Sex Before Marriage Immoral?

cardero

Citizen Mod
fromtheheart writes:With all due respect sometimes there is one person in that trist that gets over-involved and then the harm is hurt feelings without the intent of hurt feelings. :eek:
Then it is not a tryst. When it comes time to engage in any sexual activity the key words here are "consenting adults". If someone agrees to attend an orgy I am sure they are not going to be over-involved with unnecessary emotions like jealousy or hurt feelings. If you are not sure what your emotions will be or you are not ready to handle any consequences that possibly may exist, do not consent to the act.
 

Bastet

Vile Stove-Toucher
fromthe heart said:
With all due respect sometimes there is one person in that trist that gets over-involved and then the harm is hurt feelings without the intent of hurt feelings. :eek:
By the same token, in many marriages there is one person (or both), who, after signing on the dotted line, realises that marriage isn't what they thought it would be...resulting in hurt feelings and a whole lot more. And saying "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden", doesn't cut the mustard. Quite frankly, there are a lot more issues regarding marriage that need to be sorted out prior to signing on the dotted line, without both parties blindly panting over the prospect of consumating their wedding blocking all other concerns out. I'm a firm believer in 'try before you buy'. As Sunstone and paintedwolf said - if both parties go into it (whether it be a one night stand, marriage, sex within a committed relationship, or whatever), with both eyes open to exactly what it means to both parties involved, then there shouldn't be a problem.
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
Bastet said:
By the same token, in many marriages there is one person (or both), who, after signing on the dotted line, realises that marriage isn't what they thought it would be...resulting in hurt feelings and a whole lot more. And saying "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden", doesn't cut the mustard. Quite frankly, there are a lot more issues regarding marriage that need to be sorted out prior to signing on the dotted line, without both parties blindly panting over the prospect of consumating their wedding blocking all other concerns out. I'm a firm believer in 'try before you buy'. As Sunstone and paintedwolf said - if both parties go into it (whether it be a one night stand, marriage, sex within a committed relationship, or whatever), with both eyes open to exactly what it means to both parties involved, then there shouldn't be a problem.
It isn't just the panting over the consummation that makes them blind...they're too busy focussing on the wedding to worry about the dynamics of the marriage itself. You know, there's a burgeoning industry in treating the 'just married' for depression because the wedding is over and they're feeling let down after the hype has died.(It seems mostly to be a girly thing.)
If you come out of a one night stand with hurt feelings because it didn't go any further - even though you knew it for exactly what it was - then that's not a question of morality, but more of your own inability to divorce sex from emotion.
 

Bastet

Vile Stove-Toucher
lady_lazarus said:
It isn't just the panting over the consummation that makes them blind...
Agreed...I was just thinking about if both parties abstained from sex until the wedding night. It'd have to be right up there - and probably every bit as planned as the actual wedding. How romantic... :p
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There's a part of me that when I read people warn of the emotional dangers of pre-marital sex just wants to scream "Why do you expect anything good in this life to come without risk!!!" But I don't scream that, and the only reason I don't scream that is because it would be absurd of me to scream that over the internet when no one can hear me scream it. That's why I don't scream that. But I often want to.
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
Bastet said:
Agreed...I was just thinking about if both parties abstained from sex until the wedding night. It'd have to be right up there - and probably every bit as planned as the actual wedding. How romantic... :p
Sort of makes you want to rush out and plan a wedding...
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
Sunstone said:
There's a part of me that when I read people warn of the emotional dangers of pre-marital sex just wants to scream "Why do you expect anything good in this life to come without risk!!!" But I don't scream that, and the only reason I don't scream that is because it would be absurd of me to scream that over the internet when no one can hear me scream it. That's why I don't scream that. But I often want to.
On the 'net, no-one can hear you scream...
 

LilChrist

Member
It depends on what you think about it.
Morality is entirely subjective.
Morality is not subjective, it does not change. Peoples' opinions are what change. To say morality is subjective is like saying that a murderer shouldn't be punished, because he did nothing immoral, because it wasn't against his morals.

There's a part of me that when I read people warn of the emotional dangers of pre-marital sex just wants to scream "Why do you expect anything good in this life to come without risk!!!"
So, you're saying pre-marital sex is a good thing? And there aren't just emotional dangers, as hopefully everyone knows. And if there are dangers like all that that are a reality and can scientifically be proven...is it really such a good thing? Sure, pre-marital sex might not be against your morals, but I can list hundreds of reasons why it it isn't exactly...the smartest thing in the world. I'm not calling people that have done it stupid, but their actions weren't exactly wise.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
LilChrist said:
So, you're saying pre-marital sex is a good thing?
Yes, it can be. Is that astounding?

LilChrist said:
And there aren't just emotional dangers, as hopefully everyone knows. And if there are dangers like all that that are a reality and can scientifically be proven...is it really such a good thing? Sure, pre-marital sex might not be against your morals, but I can list hundreds of reasons why it it isn't exactly...the smartest thing in the world.
Most of the genuine dangers involved in pre-marital sex are present in marital sex, too. Risk is not unique to pre-marital sex. For instance, the risk of emotional trauma from divorce is quite high, and the risk of divorce is also quite high.

LilChrist said:
I'm not calling people that have done it stupid, but their actions weren't exactly wise.
I'm glad you're not calling people who have done it stupid, since studies indicate that about 90% of Americans have pre-marital sex.
 

Ceridwen018

Well-Known Member
lilchrist said:
Morality is not subjective, it does not change. Peoples' opinions are what change. To say morality is subjective is like saying that a murderer shouldn't be punished, because he did nothing immoral, because it wasn't against his morals.
LilChrist, if you had the obligation to kill someone, but the choice to have it be either a single baby, or a whole busload of kids with Duchesnne Muscular Dystrophy, which would you choose? Which would the moral person choose? As was stated before, morality is most certainly subjective.

I'm not calling people that have done it stupid, but their actions weren't exactly wise.
What about those who do make sure that their decision to have pre-marital sex is wise? Not everyone runs hell bent for leather into the bedroom. More often than not, people weigh the consequences, if any, and make an educated and adult decision.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
LilChrist said:
Morality is not subjective, it does not change.
Morality is indeed subjective.
My morality comes no where close to any Christians because I based mine on whats best for humanity while a Christian bases his/hers on whats best for their God.

I personally find most Christian morality extremely immoral.

So, you're saying pre-marital sex is a good thing? And there aren't just emotional dangers, as hopefully everyone knows. And if there are dangers like all that that are a reality and can scientifically be proven...is it really such a good thing?
What makes post-marital sex any safer or more ethical than pre-marital sex?

I see no difference.
 

LilChrist

Member
My morality comes no where close to any Christians because I based mine on whats best for humanity while a Christian bases his/hers on whats best for their God.
So, the creation is more important than the creator? The Person that created morals has lower morals than the ones that should be attempting to follow His?

More often than not, people weigh the consequences, if any, and make an educated and adult decision.
The only real "educated decision" is abstinance. Think about it, saving sex for marriage (a lifetime commitment to a partner without an infection) will cause one to experience freedom from unplanned pregnancies, STDs, premature marriage, side effects of condoms/contraceptives, guilt, doubt, disappointment, worry, and intensified feelings of rejection. Did you know that, according to surveys, the people that wait until marriage actually have better sex than those that don't. Also, couples that wait until marriage are more likely to not divorce.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
LilChrist said:
So, the creation is more important than the creator? The Person that created morals has lower morals than the ones that should be attempting to follow His?
Have you read the Bible?

God didn`t create my morals.
I did.

Give Exodus a quick look and you`ll see why the Christian God is morally inferior to almost any human I`ve ever heard of.

The only real "educated decision" is abstinance. Think about it, saving sex for marriage (a lifetime commitment to a partner without an infection) will cause one to experience freedom from unplanned pregnancies,
Marraige doesn`t magically stop unwanted pregnancies, contraception does.
You can use contraceptives without being married

The fastest growing segment of new AIDs victims are married women.
The problem with your " lifetime commitment to a partner without an infection"
is that it doesn`t work in a great many cases and often the victim is the one who has no control over it.

premature marriage,
Abstinence causes pre-mature marriage.
Those marraiges have a 60% failure rate.

side effects of condoms/contraceptives,
These side effects still exist for married couples, unless they just want to continue spitting kids out at the rate of 1.33 per year.

guilt, doubt, disappointment, worry, and intensified feelings of rejection.
Guilt, doubt , and dissappointment are brought on by emotional misunderstandings or religious programming.
A rational thinker doesn`t usually put him/herself into a position to fall prey to this.
Guilt doubt and misunderstanding exist in the bond of marriage as well.

Did you know that, according to surveys, the people that wait until marriage actually have better sex than those that don't.
This is quite the ridiculous statement as the quality of ones sex is an entirely subjective thing as well.

I`d like to see these surveys if you don`t mind.

Also, couples that wait until marriage are more likely to not divorce.
Patently untrue.

Abstinence has recently become a study subject of mine and the truth is that those who marry in their teens and twenties have the largest chance of divorce .

Did you know those teens who have been taught abstinence have an an equal pregancy rate to those don`t?

Did you know those teens who have been taught abstinence have a higher rate of STD contraction due to the fact that they haven`t had a decent education about sexuality.

Did you know that abstinence pledges by teens may or may not cause them to wait an additional 18 months before they have sex than the average teen?

Did you know those pledgers who`ve fallen off the wagon almost never use a condom in their first sexual encounter?

Did you know that the teen pregnancy rate dropped 28% in the USA between 1990 and 2000 21% of which is due to condom and contraception use, 7% due to abstinence

Did you know that a Columbia/Yale study of the sex lives of 12,000 adolescents shows that ...
"The message is really simple: `Just say no' may work in the short term but doesn't work in the long term."
"One of the problems, researchers found, is that virginity "pledgers" are less likely to use condoms when they do have sex."

Your misinformation is exactly why I don`t base my morality on Biblical scripture.

http://sarasotarealist.com/realist_reports.htm
 

LilChrist

Member
Quote: (Originally Posted by LilChrist)
So, you're saying pre-marital sex is a good thing?

Yes, it can be. Is that astounding?
Is it a good thing when the girl is left alone with a six month old child in her arms, then finds out that she has HIV? Is it a good thing when a guy can't get enough of it and resorts to rape? That's how many rapists start out. A little dabble here and there, then more and more demanding...

Have you read the Bible?

God didn`t create my morals.
I did.
You created your morals? Really? No thing or person around you effected your decision? God had no say in how you were raised, who raised you, what effects your decisions on what to believe? Your parents pulled a fast one on God by raising you and effecting what you believed, morally?

Give Exodus a quick look and you`ll see why the Christian God is morally inferior to almost any human I`ve ever heard of.
So, God's immoral, huh? Ever heard of the sermon on the mount? The morals that no human could ever live up to, were preached about by a historically-proven perfect man. That perfect man, Jesus, claimed to be God. He said He was the truth, the moral. Why would a perfect man have slipped up by saying that and lying? So, God is the standard we should live by. The "immoral" God.
What in particular are you talking about in Exodus? That's a pretty big book.

Marraige doesn`t magically stop unwanted pregnancies, contraception does.
You can use contraceptives without being married
True, it doesn't. But you don't have to worry about what people will think, or whether your boyfriend will still like you. And there's nothing magical about contraceptives.

The fastest growing segment of new AIDs victims are married women.
Because not many couples have abstained before marriage.

Abstinence causes pre-mature marriage.
Really? I can name about a hundred people right off the bat that have abstained and are either happily married or happily single.

These side effects still exist for married couples, unless they just want to continue spitting kids out at the rate of 1.33 per year.
But the side effects won't be nearly as bad, since there is hopefully a loving devotion between the couple and they can bear it together.

Guilt, doubt , and dissappointment are brought on by emotional misunderstandings or religious programming.
Emotional misunderstanding, meaning the girl usually thinks the guy really likes her for her, not her body, which pre-marital sex often encourages the opposite.

A rational thinker doesn`t usually put him/herself into a position to fall prey to this.
Usually it's the guy that's "rational thinker" though. It's a fact that woman rely more on emotions than guys do. Guys think more logically, girls more emotionally, even though they process things quicker.

Guilt doubt and misunderstanding exist in the bond of marriage as well.
It's easier to trust a virgin spouse. According to polls, more people want a virgin spouse than a non-virgin.

I`d like to see these surveys if you don`t mind.
Something my brother learned in sex ed, can't tell you where they came from.

Abstinence has recently become a study subject of mine and the truth is that those who marry in their teens and twenties have the largest chance of divorce .
What does that have to do with abstinance?

Your misinformation is exactly why I don`t base my morality on Biblical scripture.


That didn't have anything to do with scripture. My "misinformation" could in no way make a person doubt scripture.

 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
LilChrist said:
Is it a good thing when the girl is left alone with a six month old child in her arms, then finds out that she has HIV?

Of course, it's not a good thing when that happens, LilChrist. But how often does that happen when the girl or woman uses proper contraception? Are you confusing the dangers of pre-marital sex with the dangers of engaging in sex while ignorant of contraception and unprepared to counter the risk of STDs? There's a world of difference between an informed and responsible person engaging in pre-marital sex, and an ill-informed and irresponsible person engaging in it.


LilChrist said:
Is it a good thing when a guy can't get enough of it and resorts to rape? That's how many rapists start out. A little dabble here and there, then more and more demanding...
Actually, I know of no studies that suggest pre-marital sex creates rapists. Could you list the studies you've seen that suggest that?
 

pensive

Member
Sunstone said:
Actually, I know of no studies that suggest pre-marital sex creates rapists. Could you list the studies you've seen that suggest that?
I'd be curious about this, too. It's been my understanding that rape is usually more about demonstrating power over one's victims than sex for its own sake. As such, i really don't see how pre-marital sex would have any sort of causal relationship with rape.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
LilChrist said:

Is it a good thing when the girl is left alone with a six month old child in her arms, then finds out that she has HIV? Is it a good thing when a guy can't get enough of it and resorts to rape?
Is it a good thing when a wife is left alone with a 6 month old child in her arms, that she finds out that she has HIV? Is it a good thing when a husband can`t get enough of it and resorts to rape?
Marriage has no bearing on these things

That's how many rapists start out. A little dabble here and there, then more and more demanding...
I`d like to see the evidence you have for pre-marital sex creating rapists.
Or is that something your brother learned in sex-ed too?

You created your morals? Really?
Yes
No thing or person around you effected your decision?
I don`t recall implying that.
Everything and everyone I`ve ever spent time with has had some impact on my ethical outlook but I chose what I believe is right and what I believe is wrong.
It isn`t easy but at least I truly understand why I believe what I do.

God had no say in how you were raised, who raised you, what effects your decisions on what to believe?
Nope.
My mother.
The study of the impact of my actions and or potential actions on the world around me.

Your parents pulled a fast one on God by raising you and effecting what you believed, morally?
Apparently, if one believes God exists then I suppose she did to an extent.


So, God's immoral, huh?
Alot of what he condoned and directly ordered does not meet my moral standards.

Ever heard of the sermon on the mount?
I`ve read it once or twice or twenty times.


The morals that no human could ever live up to, were preached about by a historically-proven perfect man. That perfect man, Jesus, claimed to be God.
Could you cite some falisfiable research that has concluded Jesus was a historically perfect proven man?
Did they cover that in your brothers sex-ed class too?

Where did Jesus claim to be God?

What in particular are you talking about in Exodus? That's a pretty big book.
The whole book pretty much...most of Genesis too would be good for starters.


True, it doesn't. But you don't have to worry about what people will think, or whether your boyfriend will still like you. And there's nothing magical about contraceptives.
I couldn`t care less what people think.
My boyfriend will always love me..I have faith.
:)
I never implied there was anything magical about contraceptives.

Because not many couples have abstained before marriage.
No actually these wives are getting it from their husbands during their marraige.
That was the point I was trying to make.
Did you read any of that stuff I posted?

Really? I can name about a hundred people right off the bat that have abstained and are either happily married or happily single.

Thats about as authorative as heresay from your brothers sex-ed class.

But the side effects won't be nearly as bad, since there is hopefully a loving devotion between the couple and they can bear it together.
Lets hope.

Emotional misunderstanding, meaning the girl usually thinks the guy really likes her for her, not her body, which pre-marital sex often encourages the opposite.
Yes, unless she`s been directly lied to that is her misunderstanding.
Her own fault.
Teach your daughters well and that won`t happen.
Teaching your daughters they are nothing more than a plaything for men is what encourages the opposite not pre-marital sex.
Fill their heads with the fantasy of the knight in white armor sweeping them away to marital bliss foir the rest of their lives and watch the divorce rates soar.

Usually it's the guy that's "rational thinker" though. It's a fact that woman rely more on emotions than guys do. Guys think more logically, girls more emotionally, even though they process things quicker.
Again, that has to do with how you teach your daughters to think.


It's easier to trust a virgin spouse. According to polls, more people want a virgin spouse than a non-virgin.
Where might I find these polls?
Not that it matters , a plea to popularity is hardly evidence of the truth.
Someone (I believe it was PT Barnum) once said..
"You can never underestimate the ignorance of the American public"

Something my brother learned in sex ed, can't tell you where they came from.

Is your brother in an "abstinence only" sex-ed program?

What does that have to do with abstinance?
It has nothing to do with abstinence.
You said those who wait until they marry to have sex have marraiges that last longer.
I disagreed and told you that those who marry early in life have higher divorce rates.
I believe it directly applies to the topic unless your asserting that those who wait for sex do so until they are in their thirties.
That didn't have anything to do with scripture. My "misinformation" could in no way make a person doubt scripture.

That has yet to be seen.
 

Hope

Princesinha
Frankly, people, what's the good of arguing whether pre-marital sex is immoral or not if no one can even agree on morality, period??

In a perfect world, with perfect people, everyone would have sex with just one person, in a perfect marriage, where both spouses loved each other wholeheartedly. But, sadly enough, this world is nowhere near perfect, and we as a human race are incredibly flawed. Sooo......hmmmm, where does that leave us?

As a Christian, I will be honest and say that I believe pre-marital sex is wrong. But do I look down my nose at or judge those that do engage in pre-marital sex? No. Of course not. Because, as I stated above, none of us is perfect, and this world isn't a perfect place to live in. Who am I, sinner and flawed, imperfect person that I am, to judge someone else because they had or are having sex before marriage? I am not any better just because I have not had pre-marital sex.

I think, personally, that popular culture today doesn't help any in young people's views on pre-marital sex. Everything seems to be about sex, or driven by sex---movies, TV, etc, etc. And that definitely has an impact. Back in days-gone-by, when this kind of influence did not exist, pre-marital sex was by and large more looked down on. My grandfather, who was born in the 20's, loves to talk with me about his 'good ol' days' growing up. And he always laments how things have changed. He said something pretty funny to me not too long ago. He commented on how young people today have so much to do with their leisure time---play video games, watch TV, movies, etc, etc. "Young people in my day didn't have anything to do," he said. "So they just got married."

I laughed when he said it, but upon reflecting, wonder if that was such a bad thing, getting married. He and my grandmother have been married over 60 years. As have my other grandparents. As have a multitude of elderly couples form his generation. Let's face it folks---divorce has been steadily increasing, not decreasing, since my grandfather's day. And I don't think it's a mere coincidence.

Do I wish I could have pre-marital sex? I wouldn't be human if I said 'no.' Of course I wish I could. But no matter how much I'd like to, I've made up my mind to not make sex my #1 priority in life. Because, doing so, I believe, will only hinder me from enjoying all other aspects of my life to the fullest. When the culture around is constantly pushing all things sex-related, and saying it's all good, it does make saying 'no' very, very hard, though. When girls feel their value is based on whether they have a boyfriend or not, or whether they've had sex or not, it does make having a boyfriend, and sleeping with him, very, very appealing. Oh, but there is so much more to life!

Sorry I've rambled. So, yes, I do think it's wrong, but I am also not here to judge.
 
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