Is the Abrahamic God Moral?

[logician]

Actually the opposite is true. When religion turned towards forgiveness and love, then society followed along. May I suggest you read the Great Transformation by Karen Armstrong.



In the book she explores the Axial Age, the period between 800BC and 200BC when the worlds major religions turned from blood and death to peace and forgiveness.

NPR interview of Karen Armstrong discussing the Great Transformation
Bill Moyers Interviews Karen Armstrong

Please show me a peaceful and forgiving society. The U.S. is a veritable police state, with one of the highest incarceration rates of industrialized countries in the world.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Please show me a peaceful and forgiving society. The U.S. is a veritable police state, with one of the highest incarceration rates of industrialized countries in the world.

If you consider the US a police state then there is no society on the planet or in history that you would consider peaceful and forgiving. There is no sense in trying to show you anything, you have already stated your belief that one cannot exist and my guess is you are looking more for an argument than a discussion.

 

[McBell]

If you consider the US a police state then there is no society on the planet or in history that you would consider peaceful and forgiving. There is no sense in trying to show you anything, you have already stated your belief that one cannot exist and my guess is you are looking more for an argument than a discussion.

what do YOU consider the US if not a veritable police state?

 

[Popeyesays]

A high incarceration rate does not make a nation a police state. I grew up in the '60's and was in many ways what people considered a Hippie. But I always laughed at the notion of the U.S. being a police state.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

what do YOU consider the US if not a veritable police state?

I consider the US a lot of things, depending on the contex, but I could never see it as a police state. I grew up traveling the world and from age 10 and up lived in Algeria, the UAE, Saudi and Europe. I have also worked in central Asia and have visited many countries. I have seen police states, I have seen the US embassy with tanks surrounding it. I have ridden to school in busses with armed guards to keep us from being kiddnaped by terrorists before they were even called terrorists. Calling the US a police state is what some people do to try and make our government look like an evil empire for their own political agendas. I would suggest those people try experiencing the real thing before pointing fingers and crying about how evil the US is.

 

[gnomon]

Please show me a peaceful and forgiving society. The U.S. is a veritable police state, with one of the highest incarceration rates of industrialized countries in the world.

How much is due to so called Biblical morality?

The answer is very little.

 

[Somkid]

There were Buddhist communities in Alexandria, Egypt pre-Christianity. Perhaps the monastic "Therapeutae" that Eusebius considered the first Christian community in Alexandria were of Theraveda. The timing and location is right for some interesting syncretism. Just speculating of course, but what if . . .

Philo wrote extensively about the Therapeutae, and of course Philo is a major link in the philosophical development of the Logos (i.e. "The Word" from John 1).

I checked out the link you provided and while there may be some truth to it there is very little evidence. I do believe that it is possible that the practice or ritual involved in some Buddhism (which is actually not Buddhism but rather a remnant of a former religion) may be at play here. For example in Tibetan Buddhism the old religion of Bon is incorporated and would have merit in the article you provided, I am a Ch'an Buddhist which has been merged with Taoist philosophy, the Zen monks of Japan are mixed with Shinto and other traditional philosophies and religions. So, you see it is hard to say. As far as Buddhist history goes this is not widely accepted the first Buddhist recorded to go on a mission was Bodhidharma who went to China.

 

[Somkid]

The question you're missing here is the why.

What difference does it make. I know why because of the evolution of civilization and that which is philosophically universally true. I'm sure you answer has something to do with god and if it is I want to know why it hasn't been like this from the beginning?

 

[Somkid]

Actually the opposite is true. When religion turned towards forgiveness and love, then society followed along. May I suggest you read the Great Transformation by Karen Armstrong.



In the book she explores the Axial Age, the period between 800BC and 200BC when the worlds major religions turned from blood and death to peace and forgiveness.

With all due respect Karen Armstrong is so full of crap and has no basis for her book other than her opinion. Perhaps this link will shed some light on the subject for you.

'Dawkins - what can't he be blamed for?' by Thomas Sutcliffe - RichardDawkins.net

 

[kmkemp]

What difference does it make. I know why because of the evolution of civilization and that which is philosophically universally true. I'm sure you answer has something to do with god and if it is I want to know why it hasn't been like this from the beginning?

It has been. =(

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

With all due respect Karen Armstrong is so full of crap and has no basis for her book other than her opinion. Perhaps this link will shed some light on the subject for you.

'Dawkins - what can't he be blamed for?' by Thomas Sutcliffe - RichardDawkins.net

Ok, I read it. All I got was that the writer thought Ms. Armstrong may have been implying something he didn't like. It was hardly an enlightening read.

So, have you read the book? And is it her work you think is full of crap or the Axial Age that was put forward by Karl Jaspers. I admit I haven't read the book but I have read up on the Axial Age which is what makes me want to read the Great Transformation. You have made a statement, what do you have to back it up?

 

[Scuba Pete]

You know, Douglas Adams real wit is in how he parallels human idiocy. Here is his parody of Dawkins as he talks about the Babel Fish:

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument isn't worth a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid from making a fortune with his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God.

 

[Vor]

well your morality? my morality? what is morality, when is morality the true morality?

This is the realm of opinion and 500 page theories

 

[Troublemane]

Of course the Abrahamic God was/is moral, to a primitive people transitioning from tribal/nomadic phase to a more agricultural, city-based society. The old idols and charms and so on the various groups had brought from their widely differing backgrounds had to be gotten rid of in favor of the creation of a new, unified group symbol. Any transgression would be punished severely.

Today these ancient tribal customs and taboos seem ridiculous to a modern person, but still there are Hassidic sects and denominations of Christianity which try to practice them to the letter---presumably except for stoning people to death for adultery, etc. Well, theres still that in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, etc....so apparently the Abrahamic God is still alive and well, and bloodthirsty as ever. As to the question is "He" moral, though, gonna have to side with Dopp on this one. Depends totally on who is speaking for "Him".

 

[rojse]

You know, Douglas Adams real wit is in how he parallels human idiocy.

I prefer this Douglas Adams quote:

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are faries at the bottom of it too?"

Or what about his sentient puddle analogy, where he tells about the puddle that believes that the hole in the ground was designed for it because it fits so well, and the puddle exists until the sun evaporates it.

 

[Smoke]

I prefer this Douglas Adams quote:

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are faries at the bottom of it too?"

That quote is part of my computer desktop wallpaper.