Is the Bible Really True?

[Ingledsva]

The Bible also says Samson beat up 1,000 Philistines with a jaw bone. I find it unlikely that actually happened. But I’m not saying I believe Samson is a myth. There is a huge difference. If we read between the lines of the Samson story we will find Samson got his strength not from his hair, but by putting his trust in God.

Samson is a traditional Solar hero. The name actually means sunlight. His wild hair represents the Sun's Rays. Cutting the Rays represents loss of power, and death.

Haven't you noticed all the symbols? Door, hinge, pillars, grinding wheel, vines, rays, etc.?

When his Divine Rays are cut, his power declines, and he is set at the grinding wheel of life with the rest of the mortals.

Most people don't even know that there is a bit of a traditional riddle in there. He actually tells her - the first time she asks - how to kill him.

Jdg 16:7 And said he Samson to her, If they yoke/bind me seven times/sevenfold with green hanging vines which have not been slain/cut, then I shall become weak/wounded, and become altogether human.

The seven vines/rays/locks of his hair are the uncut vines.


Jdg 16:16 And it came to be, through her pressing him with her words over time, and urging him to harvest/cut down/reap/ his mortality unto destruction/death,


Jdg 16:17 that he explained to her his whole understanding/wisdom, and said to her, no shearing has ascended upon my head, for a Naziyr/unpruned vine of Elohiym am I from my mother's womb, and If shorn my force/power will decline, and wounded would I be, and become like all humankind.


Jdg 16:19 And she made him torpid between her knees, and called forth the steward and had him cut off the seven sacred locks from his head, and to wound and defile/afflict him, and his power/strength departed accordingly from him.

No longer a Sacred Hero, and with no power, making him fully human, - in 16:21 he is bound to the Grinding wheel - Of the Zodiac, seasons, life and death, and dies at the correct point-door-hinge of the cycle. Usually a Sacred Sacrifice.

There are all kinds of clues in this story.

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[roger1440]

Samson is a traditional Solar hero. The name actually means sunlight. His wild hair represents the Sun's Rays. Cutting the Rays represents loss of power, and death.

Haven't you noticed all the symbols? Door, hinge, pillars, grinding wheel, vines, rays, etc.?

When his Divine Rays are cut, his power declines, and he is set at the grinding wheel of life with the rest of the mortals.

Most people don't even know that there is a bit of a traditional riddle in there. He actually tells her - the first time she asks - how to kill him.

Jdg 16:7 And said he Samson to her, If they yoke/bind me seven times/sevenfold with green hanging vines which have not been slain/cut, then I shall become weak/wounded, and become altogether human.

The seven vines/rays/locks of his hair are the uncut vines.


Jdg 16:16 And it came to be, through her pressing him with her words over time, and urging him to harvest/cut down/reap/ his mortality unto destruction/death,


Jdg 16:17 that he explained to her his whole understanding/wisdom, and said to her, no shearing has ascended upon my head, for a Naziyr/unpruned vine of Elohiym am I from my mother's womb, and If shorn my force/power will decline, and wounded would I be, and become like all humankind.


Jdg 16:19 And she made him torpid between her knees, and called forth the steward and had him cut off the seven sacred locks from his head, and to wound and defile/afflict him, and his power/strength departed accordingly from him.

No longer a Sacred Hero, and with no power, making him fully human, - in 16:21 he is bound to the Grinding wheel - Of the Zodiac, seasons, life and death, and dies at the correct point-door-hinge of the cycle. Usually a Sacred Sacrifice.

There are all kinds of clues in this story.

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I never heard of that. Where did you get that from?

 

[roger1440]

You completely quoted me out of context. What I actually said was: If, for example, Jesus was a myth and not a real human. I did not say Jesus was a myth at all so please don't misquote me.

I don’t think the stories in the Gospels were meant to be taken literality. The stories are full metaphors and allegory. Metaphors and allegory isn’t make believe or fiction. It’s another style of writing, sort of like poetry.

 

[maggie2]

he should have used this "" If, for example, "" in his quote he did misquote you

BUT

He was a real human being and there is almost near consensus among scholars that he existed.


It is stated as fact as can be he was crucified, and baptized by John.


Most of what you stated is based of lack of education in the field, there is only a small handful of mythicist that actually have any biblical training.

Most are crack pots with no credible education in the field they discuss.

How rude to comment on authors as you have just done. Actually, the original post in this thread was about Tom Harpur. He happens to have been a well-educated individual. Here is his educational background: Born in Toronto, Ontario, in 1929, Harpur earned an Honours B.A. in 1951 at University College at the University of Toronto, where he won the Jarvis Scholarship in Greek and Latin, the Maurice Hutton Scholarship in Classics, the Sir William Mulock Scholarship in Classics, and the Gold Medal in Classics. He went on to study Lit.Hum. ("Greats" or Classics) at Oriel College at the University of Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar from 1951 to 1954 where he read the ancient historians (Herodotus, Thucydides and Tacitus) completely in their original texts. He graduated in 1954 with the B.A and was conferred the M.A. (Oxon.) two years later. Between 1954 and 1956 he studied theology at Wycliffe College, University of Toronto, where he was a tutor in Greek. At Wycliffe he won prizes in homiletics and Greek and was the senior student and valedictorian in his graduating year. He returned to Oxford in 1962 and 1963 for his post-graduate studies where he read the Early Christian writers or Church Fathers

Harpur worked as an Anglican (Episcopal) priest for several years and returned to Oxford for one year to further study the New Testament. He then taught New Testament studies from 1964 to 1971. I think he is well qualified to discuss this subject. However, just because I respect his credentials does not mean I agree with him. I do, however, find his writing interesting.

You don't get to be a Rhodes scholar for three years if you're a crack pot and don't already have a credible education. I think, in this case, you are misinformed and your cheap shot comment is just that, a cheap shot.

 

[maggie2]

I don’t think the stories in the Gospels were meant to be taken literality. The stories are full metaphors and allegory. Metaphors and allegory isn’t make believe or fiction. It’s another style of writing, sort of like poetry.

I agree with you that the stories in the Gospels were probably not meant to be taken literally. However, there are many in the Christian faith who would totally disagree with that. I also agree with you that the stories are full of metaphors and allegory. And I also understand what those two terms mean. So it seems we agree on something.Although I still am on the fence as to whether or not I think Jesus was a real person. Maybe by the time I'm 105 years old I will have come to some conclusion one way or the other. I'm ;usually pretty decisive but in this case I am obviously not.

 

[maggie2]

Plenty to prove his existence, none that can disprove.

Not one of his enemies or the movements enemies stated, he never existed.

And the lack of a credible replacement hypothesis that explains the evidence we do have, even if the evidence is weak, is still required, and to date some sharp people have tried and failed at doing this.

I'd be interested in seeing some of the proof you speak of. Can you point me to something I can read or see that would provide more information? It's easy to say there is proof but it's quite another thing to provide said proof.

I'd also be interested to know more about those who have tried and failed to disprove Jesus' existence. Who are they?

 

[outhouse]

I'd also be interested to know more about those who have tried and failed to disprove Jesus' existence. Who are they?

Price, and Carrier are the only two with semi credibility, who have tried to put forth a replacement hypothesis.

I'd be interested in seeing some of the proof you speak of.

The best proof is the hypothesis that explains the evidence. The evidence is the gospels, Josephus, and Tacitus.

 

[roger1440]

How rude to comment on authors as you have just done. Actually, the original post in this thread was about Tom Harpur. He happens to have been a well-educated individual. Here is his educational background: Born in Toronto, Ontario, in 1929, Harpur earned an Honours B.A. in 1951 at University College at the University of Toronto, where he won the Jarvis Scholarship in Greek and Latin, the Maurice Hutton Scholarship in Classics, the Sir William Mulock Scholarship in Classics, and the Gold Medal in Classics. He went on to study Lit.Hum. ("Greats" or Classics) at Oriel College at the University of Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar from 1951 to 1954 where he read the ancient historians (Herodotus, Thucydides and Tacitus) completely in their original texts. He graduated in 1954 with the B.A and was conferred the M.A. (Oxon.) two years later. Between 1954 and 1956 he studied theology at Wycliffe College, University of Toronto, where he was a tutor in Greek. At Wycliffe he won prizes in homiletics and Greek and was the senior student and valedictorian in his graduating year. He returned to Oxford in 1962 and 1963 for his post-graduate studies where he read the Early Christian writers or Church Fathers

Harpur worked as an Anglican (Episcopal) priest for several years and returned to Oxford for one year to further study the New Testament. He then taught New Testament studies from 1964 to 1971. I think he is well qualified to discuss this subject. However, just because I respect his credentials does not mean I agree with him. I do, however, find his writing interesting.

You don't get to be a Rhodes scholar for three years if you're a crack pot and don't already have a credible education. I think, in this case, you are misinformed and your cheap shot comment is just that, a cheap shot.

Is Canada even a real country?

 

[maggie2]

Is Canada even a real country?

Duh, I dunno. Maybe? ROFL! Yeah, we're a real country. About 1/10th the population of the USA but that's okay. I was just hearing something about Greenland and their population is only just over 56,000 and I think even they are considered real. LOL!

 

[roger1440]

Duh, I dunno. Maybe? ROFL! Yeah, we're a real country. About 1/10th the population of the USA but that's okay. I was just hearing something about Greenland and their population is only just over 56,000 and I think even they are considered real. LOL!

 

[outhouse]

How rude to comment on authors as you have just done.

LOL truth hurts. Most mythicist are uneducated

Christ myth theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most people who study the historical period of Jesus believe that he did exist, and do not write in support of the Christ myth theory

These views are so extreme and so unconvincing to 99.99 percent of the real experts that anyone holding them is as likely to get a teaching job in an established department of religion as a six-day creationist is likely to land on in a bona fide department of biology

Actually, the original post in this thread was about Tom Harpur.

And he is a known clown. Harpur also believes in a divine Christ figure.

He happens to have been a well-educated individual.

No, he has a bad conclusion, and his conclusion is laughed at.

His education is rather minimal on this topic. I almost have more then he does.

 

[Abdu Samad]

Samson is a traditional Solar hero. The name actually means sunlight. His wild hair represents the Sun's Rays. Cutting the Rays represents loss of power, and death.
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No doubt that Original Gospel (injeel) in Syriac/Aramaic language was revealed to Jesus by GOD. and not not even one Gospel is available in its original language as is Quran in its original Arabic.

There is tons of irrefutable Proofs that during past 2000 years, Gospels has been tamped, modified, changed recast, verses added and changed and subtracted. Even top most Christians Ph.D Bible Professors scholars like Professor Dr. Bart D. Ehraman Ph.D and Dr. Robert Beckford Ph.D admit that Bibles has been distorted

 

[maggie2]

Price, and Carrier are the only two with semi credibility, who have tried to put forth a replacement hypothesis.






The best proof is the hypothesis that explains the evidence. The evidence is the gospels, Josephus, and Tacitus.

Checked out both Josephus and Tacitus. Josephus refers to Christ twice and Tacitus once. That's not tons of proof. And for such a well-known personage as Jesus you would think there were many more references. However, I certainly acknowledge that there are three independent references. Additionally, I don't count the gospels as they are not independent writings. They were written by people who had a vested interest in their content.

 

[maggie2]

LOL truth hurts. Most mythicist are uneducated clowns.

Christ myth theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

most people who study the historical period of Jesus believe that he did exist, and do not write in support of the Christ myth theory

These views are so extreme and so unconvincing to 99.99 percent of the real experts that anyone holding them is as likely to get a teaching job in an established department of religion as a six-day creationist is likely to land on in a bona fide department of biology



And he is a known clown. Harpur also believes in a divine Christ figure.



No, he has a bad conclusion, and his conclusion is laughed at.

His education is rather minimal on this topic. I almost have more then he does.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion but I choose to disagree with you. To call others things like uneducated clowns only shows your own lack of common courtesy and wisdom. How about leaving the negative comments on other people out? I don't think it enhances any discussion to put others down.

 

[maggie2]

ROFL! I hadn't seen that before. It's priceless. Thanks for sharing. Loved it.

 

[outhouse]

nd for such a well-known personage as Jesus

He was only well know after death, by all my study.

He was an obscure Galilean teacher taught by John, who only found popularity in death by becoming a martyr.

There was almost half a million people at Passover at his death, It was ONLY these people that wrote about him. Not his Galilean followers who fled at arrest.

They were written by people who had a vested interest in their content.

Yes and they wrote in a time when people were still living that were there at that Passover and could refute it. No one ever did because it looks like common knowledge a Galilean was crucified.

 

[outhouse]

To call others things like uneducated clowns only shows your own lack of common courtesy and wisdom

Sorry, I know and debate these authors, and have for years. I have debated some of Toms sources, as well. I am on the front line.

I don't think it enhances any discussion to put others down.

They really are uneducated on this subject. Its not some kind of a joke. And if you knew the stuff they proposed, you would shake your head in disbelief.



Again, only a few have tried to create a replacement hypothesis, and both attempts were laughable. Toms doesn't even come close to the laughable ones.

 

[outhouse]

I don't think it enhances any discussion

Did you not refuse to discuss Toms position? I don't think your interested in enhancing anything other then your own opinion, but I could be wrong.

 

[maggie2]

Did you not refuse to discuss Toms position? I don't think your interested in enhancing anything other then your own opinion, but I could be wrong.

Okay, now it's time to stop this conversation. I am not interested in any discussion that belittles others. I try, sometimes not so successfully I must admit, to not judge others and I won't be part of a conversation that demeans other people who are not here to defend themselves. So, outhouse, please go back to debating with your other sparing partners. You'll enjoy it much more than this I'm sure.

 

[Ingledsva]

I never heard of that. Where did you get that from?

The Bible, and ancient myth.

For instance - Samson is Shimshon = Sunlight. It is H8123 in your Strong's.

Frazer's The Golden Bough, and Graves' The White Goddess, both have quite a lot of information on Solar Gods and Heroes. They are very interesting books if you have the time to read them. They have more than 900 pages of history and mythic information between them. They are worth reading.

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