• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?

knh777

Member
Machabees is an exterior reference. Not a source considered God inspired every word jot and tittle. Slight interpretive miscalculations through interpretive process is not earth shattering. If something that small bothers you then it is purposely there to let you stumble.
Someone led by the Holy Spirit would see beyond that and would understand the original intent.
And with todays tech its even more foolish since interlinear Hebrew and Greek is free and easy to get for anyone. There is no excuse to not seek truth every tool God has made freely available for those who SEEK Him!
 

knh777

Member
Here I have two contradictions that I have been posting about forever that nobody seems to care about.

Proverbs 3:5 as read by the whole world:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

People really do believe in leaning on other people's understanding. They lean on the understanding of the person who heard the word of God to write it down. They lean on the understanding of the copyists. They lean on the understanding of the people who explain what it all means.

The other thing they believe in is that Jesus commanded people to make other people believe in him.

Matthew 28:19 as read by most people:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations

What is wrong with that? Every other idea they glean from scripture is backed by other scripture. It is how they know what it means. Matthew 28:19 has no supporting scripture. So.......either Bible texts need no other assenting scripture or they have Matthew 28:19 wrong.
If you do not have the Holy Spirit of Truth through the work of Salvation, being born again, these are your first failures. From there its just down hill.
Yes, it is far too contradictory to be true.

2KI 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.


Ezra 2:15
The children of Adin, four hundred fifty and four.

Nehemiah 7:20
The children of Adin, six hundred fifty and five.


2 Samuel 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen.

1 Chronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen.



1 Machabees 4:28
Lysias gathered together threescore thousand chosen men, and five thousand horsemen.

2 Machabees 11:2
Lysias ... Gathered together fourscore thousand men, and all the horsemen, and came against the Jews.


.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
To long. When I get on the forum, I usually have 8-10 post to respond to, and I like to get to all of them. Plus I usually read some not addressed to me and I want to comment on them Plus I am in another forum. Plus I have tthings outside the fourm to do.
That's why I'm cutting my posts into two. One short one that deals with a specific issue, and a larger one, as you usually bring up many other issues that can be addressed, and simple one liners, bumper sticker theology, doesn't really work to get a point across. Also, I can reference back to posts later on, showing that I have discussed this or that point as they come up second or third times.
Answer the question. Yes or no. It is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of believing/not believing what God says.
I did answer the question. It is a matter of faith. You can't prove G-d exists. One accepts the existence of G-d on faith. Believing what G-d says is also based on faith. So yes, it is based on faith.
Your explanation of the allegory is not bad but it omits the central teaching---the new birth is supernatural and those born again are not under the law.

The first thing we learn about Sarah is that she was barren(Gen 11:30), she could not have children. When Isaac was born Abraham was past the age where he could conceive children. Therefore his birth was a miracle, just like our new birth was. He, like us is the child of the promise.

This allegory is an allegory of comfort. The spiritual birth teaches us at least 2 things. Just as we did not play a part in our natural birth, we played no part in our spiritual birth, and we can't lose our relationship with God. My son, good, bad or indifferent will always be my son. Once someone is born physically, they can't be unborn; the same is true of our spiritual birth.
Still not sure what this has to do with our discussion though.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Machabees is an exterior reference. Not a source considered God inspired every word jot and tittle. Slight interpretive miscalculations through interpretive process is not earth shattering. If something that small bothers you then it is purposely there to let you stumble.
Someone led by the Holy Spirit would see beyond that and would understand the original intent.
And with todays tech its even more foolish since interlinear Hebrew and Greek is free and easy to get for anyone. There is no excuse to not seek truth every tool God has made freely available for those who SEEK Him!
OK? The Bible says it is someone's job to be making disciples for Jesus. I call that scripture a contradiction of many other scriptures in "all scripture inspired of God". You say there are no contradictions. Some people call "interpretive miscalculations" contradictions if they are contradictions. Some other people seem to be too afraid to admit that the Bible has mistakes in it.

Some of us are wondering why.
 

knh777

Member
In my opinion, the contradictions, grammatical inconsistencies and other assorted technical language issues in Tanach are what 3/4 of Judaism is built on. I always point out, the very first word of Genesis is already a grammatical error in conjunction with the rest of the verse.
Thats silly God intended it to say as it does. Ask Him and He will show you. Resist Him and He will resist you.

If you do not have the Holy Spirit of Truth through the work of Salvation, being born again, these are your first failures. From there its just down hill.

If you have 1000 coincidences in one Book, and each coincidence is compelling in itself, then just maybe ... the Bible may have been Authored by Someone outside of our natural reality.

Both pi and e to the 4th decimal point is in 2 verses
Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1
**
What makes this most compelling is their location in the scripture. Not buried deep but sitting right on top Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1

And both math equations match what God was doing in both Testaments.
Genesis - pi - full circle creation with pre-designed history from beginning to end!

And in John 1: 1 Jesus brought light into the World. And not just for one nation Israel, but for "e" exponential growth out to every nation!

Then God adds both together and brings it back full circle to the final act of adding back to the tree the Jews. They had to reject first, for the Gospel to go out to all nations. Now everything is in line for final prophesies.

And Israel is a key player! How did one small place end up the object for all the world to focus on? Maybe its God finishing what He started!
**
Fundamental Constants
The Mysteries of Pi and e
by Chuck Missler

A Rabbinical Tradition

The ancient Hebrew sages believed, of course, that God created the heavens and the earth. However, some of them believed that the Word of God was the very template with which He did it. This strikes some of us as simply a colorful exaggeration that goes beyond any direct evidence. There are hints here and there. There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture: Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.

Both Hebrew and Greek use letters as both letters and numbers. So if we read it by its numeric value in these two verses we can find pi and e to the 4th decimal. And both are more precise than you would learn in basic math! They are precise to advanced usage.

**To see Hebrew or Greek letter chart go to link and click on the linked word "chart"

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

**
Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.

**
Here it is in English - Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Here are the letters in Hebrew: [ Masoretic Text ]

Gen 1:1 בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

**
If you examine the numerical values of each of the Hebrew letters, and the numerical value of the words (see chart), and apply them to this formula:

**
Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You get 3.1416 x 1017. The value of π to four decimal places!
.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Greek: John 1: 1 ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

John 1:1 in Greek

This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:

Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of e.

.
Note:
The Masoretic Text - is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. However, contemporary scholars seeking to understand the history of the Hebrew Bible's text use a range of other sources.
.
**
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is written that Jesus came to fulfill the law. Then he tells his disciples that they are to be making more disciples.

Was the Law for making disciples?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Thats silly God intended it to say as it does. Ask Him and He will show you. Resist Him and He will resist you.

If you do not have the Holy Spirit of Truth through the work of Salvation, being born again, these are your first failures. From there its just down hill.

If you have 1000 coincidences in one Book, and each coincidence is compelling in itself, then just maybe ... the Bible may have been Authored by Someone outside of our natural reality.

Both pi and e to the 4th decimal point is in 2 verses
Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1
**
What makes this most compelling is their location in the scripture. Not buried deep but sitting right on top Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1

And both math equations match what God was doing in both Testaments.
Genesis - pi - full circle creation with pre-designed history from beginning to end!

And in John 1: 1 Jesus brought light into the World. And not just for one nation Israel, but for "e" exponential growth out to every nation!

Then God adds both together and brings it back full circle to the final act of adding back to the tree the Jews. They had to reject first, for the Gospel to go out to all nations. Now everything is in line for final prophesies.

And Israel is a key player! How did one small place end up the object for all the world to focus on? Maybe its God finishing what He started!
**
Fundamental Constants
The Mysteries of Pi and e
by Chuck Missler

A Rabbinical Tradition

The ancient Hebrew sages believed, of course, that God created the heavens and the earth. However, some of them believed that the Word of God was the very template with which He did it. This strikes some of us as simply a colorful exaggeration that goes beyond any direct evidence. There are hints here and there. There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture: Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.

Both Hebrew and Greek use letters as both letters and numbers. So if we read it by its numeric value in these two verses we can find pi and e to the 4th decimal. And both are more precise than you would learn in basic math! They are precise to advanced usage.

**To see Hebrew or Greek letter chart go to link and click on the linked word "chart"

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

**
Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.

**
Here it is in English - Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Here are the letters in Hebrew: [ Masoretic Text ]

Gen 1:1 בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

**
If you examine the numerical values of each of the Hebrew letters, and the numerical value of the words (see chart), and apply them to this formula:

**
Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You get 3.1416 x 1017. The value of π to four decimal places!
.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Greek: John 1: 1 ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

John 1:1 in Greek

This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:

Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of e.

.
Note:
The Masoretic Text - is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. However, contemporary scholars seeking to understand the history of the Hebrew Bible's text use a range of other sources.
.
**

Nobody can know for sure that what was written was really God speaking to the writer. It takes faith to believe that.
God didn't number the verses. I am sure of that.
 

knh777

Member
Uf you "deny Christ in the flesh" it doesnt simply mean you deny Jesus was a man who walked the earth.
It means you deny who He is and was in the flesh. The Godhead in bodily form. Without this there in NO salvation.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You should read what I wrote and weigh its evidence assuming is foolish.
I am not assuming all the flotsam is not from another world. I am saying that I am certain it is not by The God, The Creator, the only one I care about. I used to care about Jesus but he told me not to, so now I don't.
 

knh777

Member
I gave some reasonable proof of His word showing it is reliable and has a signature.
Believe as you want.
You can either reason logically or be like an "unreasoning animals."
Those are the two minds set before this final generation.
One is in the image of the beast, the other is in the image of the Creator!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I gave some reasonable proof of His word showing it is reliable and has a signature.
Believe as you want.
You can either reason logically or be like an "unreasoning animals."
Those are the two minds set before this final generation.
One is in the image of the beast, the other is in the image of the Creator!
Please use the quote feature when you respond so that we might know who you are replying to.

LOGIC says that a person numbered the scriptures.

"When was the Bible divided into chapters and verses?
They were then inserted into Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in the 15th century. Robert Estienne (Robert Stephanus) was the first to number the verses within each chapter, his verse numbers entering printed editions in 1551 (New Testament) and 1571 (Hebrew Bible)"
 

knh777

Member
Please use the quote feature when you respond so that we might know who you are replying to.

LOGIC says that a person numbered the scriptures.

"When was the Bible divided into chapters and verses?
They were then inserted into Greek manuscripts of the New Testament in the 15th century. Robert Estienne (Robert Stephanus) was the first to number the verses within each chapter, his verse numbers entering printed editions in 1551 (New Testament) and 1571 (Hebrew Bible)"
And logic says if He created all He is able to watch over His word.
God is not far. He is near.
God is not restrained. Nor is He in a small box. If numbering screws you up then where is the Holy Sprit in you, leading you into all truth?
Or did Jesus lie?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And logic says if He created all He is able to watch over His word.
Yes, God The Father watches over Jesus, God's son, The Word.
God is not far. He is near.
I agree!
God is not restrained.
I think I have to disagree with this.

Nor is He in a small box.
Good. LOL

If numbering screws you up then where is the Holy Sprit in you, leading you into all truth?
The numbering is helpful. I think the person who thought of it was friendly and brave. You seem to be saying that a person can't be led to the truth without the numbers. I can't agree with that.
Or did Jesus lie?
No.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Thats silly God intended it to say as it does. Ask Him and He will show you. Resist Him and He will resist you.

If you do not have the Holy Spirit of Truth through the work of Salvation, being born again, these are your first failures. From there its just down hill.

If you have 1000 coincidences in one Book, and each coincidence is compelling in itself, then just maybe ... the Bible may have been Authored by Someone outside of our natural reality.

Both pi and e to the 4th decimal point is in 2 verses
Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1
**
What makes this most compelling is their location in the scripture. Not buried deep but sitting right on top Gen 1: 1 and John 1: 1

And both math equations match what God was doing in both Testaments.
Genesis - pi - full circle creation with pre-designed history from beginning to end!

And in John 1: 1 Jesus brought light into the World. And not just for one nation Israel, but for "e" exponential growth out to every nation!

Then God adds both together and brings it back full circle to the final act of adding back to the tree the Jews. They had to reject first, for the Gospel to go out to all nations. Now everything is in line for final prophesies.

And Israel is a key player! How did one small place end up the object for all the world to focus on? Maybe its God finishing what He started!
**
Fundamental Constants
The Mysteries of Pi and e
by Chuck Missler

A Rabbinical Tradition

The ancient Hebrew sages believed, of course, that God created the heavens and the earth. However, some of them believed that the Word of God was the very template with which He did it. This strikes some of us as simply a colorful exaggeration that goes beyond any direct evidence. There are hints here and there. There are two well-known references to the creation in the Scripture: Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.

Both Hebrew and Greek use letters as both letters and numbers. So if we read it by its numeric value in these two verses we can find pi and e to the 4th decimal. And both are more precise than you would learn in basic math! They are precise to advanced usage.

**To see Hebrew or Greek letter chart go to link and click on the linked word "chart"

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2003/482/

**
Let’s look “underneath” the text of each of these.

**
Here it is in English - Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Here are the letters in Hebrew: [ Masoretic Text ]

Gen 1:1 בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

**
If you examine the numerical values of each of the Hebrew letters, and the numerical value of the words (see chart), and apply them to this formula:

**
Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You get 3.1416 x 1017. The value of π to four decimal places!
.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Greek: John 1: 1 ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

John 1:1 in Greek

This time if you take the numerical value of each of the Greek letters (see chart), and the numerical value of the words, and apply them to the same formula:

Number of Letters x Product of the Letters
. . . . . . . . ÷
Number of Words x Product of the Words

You now get 2.7183 x 1040, the value of e.

.
Note:
The Masoretic Text - is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Tanakh for Rabbinic Judaism. However, contemporary scholars seeking to understand the history of the Hebrew Bible's text use a range of other sources.
.
**
Why are you quoting me?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Just looking for another Jew to spew his salvation nonsense to. Because, in case you didn't already know, you need Jesus.
Is that what he was saying? I couldn't figure out if he was being sarcastic or not. I mean the content of the post didn't look serious...
 
Top