Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

To which I add: "hasa diga Eebowai!"

 

[savagewind]

2 Samuel 12

13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You will not die. 14 But what you did caused the Lord’s enemies to lose all respect for him. For this reason the son who was born to you will die.”

It does appear that someone thought the child died because of David's sin.
I still think Deut. 5:9 is about the death penalty that humankind instituted for crimes deserving of death.
If you would look at it that way it makes the most sense.

 

[savagewind]

I think that King David's child might have died a natural death due to the terrible emotional strain that the mother experienced. Her shame was too great and David was the cause. 2 Samuel 12:14

 

[Sunstone]

How can metaphors be too contradictory?

Hmmm....I don't think I thought that one through well enough. Thanks for catching that!

 

[jeager106]

Is the Bible..............................contradictory?
40,000 denominations of Christians all reading the SAME BOOK!

Is it the Bible or is it the way people interpret what is read?
Or is it that people DON'T read it?
FORTY THOUSAND DENOMINATIONS ALL READING THE SAME BOOK.
Got that?

Let's see? Which denomination am I?

I'm a member of the denomination of Latter Day, Catholic, Jehovah's Witnesses, of the Eastern Baptist division of the David Koresh school
of Jim Jones, led by the Right Reverend Al Sharpton.
WE ARE RIGHT. or W. A. R. often shortened to WAR.
I'm also a gun carrying member of the N.R.A., the 2nd Amendment
Foundation, and a Fellow of the Bullets Forever Preservation Society.
I'm a LIFE MEMBER of Ducks Unlimited and have feathers to prove it.
I kill ducks so we can have more ducks to kill.
Make sense?
I'm also a Republican who voted for Trump so when things go bad
quickly please feel free to blame me without reservation.
If you LOVE wildlife then please buy a hunting license and a shotgun and slaughter
a bunny today.

 

[roger1440]

The contradictions are more with details in a story then the message of a story. The Bible says King Solomon had 1000 women. Let’s say on another page he had 998 women. Would it really make a difference in the story? Anyway way you spell it, that’s a heck of a lot of Jewish chicks.

 

[Skwim]

The contradictions are more with details in a story then the message of a story. The Bible says King Solomon had 1000 women. Let’s say on another page he had 998 women. Would it really make a difference in the story? Anyway way you spell it, that’s a heck of a lot of Jewish chicks.

The point of the OP isn't that a particular statement in the Bible is false, but its implication as to the veracity of the book. If any statement in the Bible can be shown to be false then it's very likely other statements are false as well. Possibly very important statements in fact. So trust in the truth of the Bible must be provisional---to the rational mind anyway. Don't care about rationality, and find meeting one's needs more important, then forge ahead and pick cherries to your heart's content.


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[savagewind]

The point of the OP isn't that a particular statement in the Bible is false, but its implication as to the veracity of the book. If any statement in the Bible can be shown to be false then it's very likely other statements are false as well. Possibly very important statements in fact. So trust in the truth of the Bible must be provisional---to the rational mind anyway. Don't care about rationality, and find meeting one's needs more important, then forge ahead and pick cherries to your heart's content.


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What you say is true.

What they say is that God used men just as though the men were secretaries to write right words of God. They say, "God has always and will always protect what was written from any notable change". They can not say that God prevented any changes because everyone can actually see that it was changed in places. The changes that God allowed don't mean anything but people lost and wasting time on the internet. Their God is sloppy and doesn't care much for precision. Funny though that God calls God's self "perfect" and says that we must be perfect too. I would call that a contradiction.

 

[omega2xx]

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true? I've heard that said about the Bible, but I don't know enough about it. What do you think?

Can you post some things that are considered contradictory? That is a comment made by those who have not studied the Bible enough to understand it.

 

[omega2xx]

Guess this depends on what scripture one chooses to be inerrant. What has to be right so as to back up and sustain one's faith. In any case, all I was addressing was the OP title question.

Is the Bible too Contradictory for All of it to be True?
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And the answer is: Yes, it is too contradictory for all of it to be true. Trouble is, of course, except for the contradictions and absurdities there's no way of really telling the true parts from the false parts.


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Can you provide some examples? Perhaps you haven't studied the Bible enough to understand it.

 

[Valjean]

The contradictions are more with details in a story then the message of a story. The Bible says King Solomon had 1000 women. Let’s say on another page he had 998 women. Would it really make a difference in the story? Anyway way you spell it, that’s a heck of a lot of Jewish chicks.

To a biblical literalist it makes all the difference in the world. It would upset the whole apple cart, like a precambrian ape fossil.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It does appear that someone thought the child died because of David's sin.
I still think Deut. 5:9 is about the death penalty that humankind instituted for crimes deserving of death.
If you would look at it that way it makes the most sense.

You might think it, and it might "make sense" to you thinking it, but it is NOT what the Bible says, and that is the subject of this thread.

I think that King David's child might have died a natural death due to the terrible emotional strain that the mother experienced. Her shame was too great and David was the cause. 2 Samuel 12:14

And again, while you may think about it whatever way you wish, what you are really doing is reading things in where they are not. I can only think you do so as a way to rescue the Bible from its own contradictions.

In any case, my position stands -- that the Bible really is too self-contradictory to be a reliable moral guide.

 

[savagewind]

that the Bible really is too self-contradictory to be a reliable moral guide.

I agree with you. I think that people can not be convinced of that your way.

 

[savagewind]

what you are really doing is reading things in where they are not.

YOU do not know they are not there and surely no writer of scripture ever believed that what they wrote was to be taken at face value like you all do.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

YOU do not know they are not there and surely no writer of scripture ever believed that what they wrote was to be taken at face value like you all do.

I think that depends. There are certainly ambiguous scriptures in the Bible (try Revelation on for size), that are meant to be read metaphorically. (Oddly, too many fundamentalists tend to read Revelation literally.)

But in the passages quoted from Deuteronomy, which purport to describe historical events and conversations between real people, I rather doubt it. And the words of Nathan to David look very much like they say exactly what I suggest they said -- David's child died, by Divine will, as punishment for David's sin which "caused the Lord's enemies to lose all respect for him."

 

[savagewind]

I think that depends. There are certainly ambiguous scriptures in the Bible (try Revelation on for size), that are meant to be read metaphorically. (Oddly, too many fundamentalists tend to read Revelation literally.)

But in the passages quoted from Deuteronomy, which purport to describe historical events and conversations between real people, I rather doubt it. And the words of Nathan to David look very much like they say exactly what I suggest they said -- David's child died, by Divine will, as punishment for David's sin which "caused the Lord's enemies to lose all respect for him."

I think it is interesting that you read it that way. I read that the birth of the child is what caused the Lord's enemies to lose respect for David.

 

[savagewind]

It is possible that the child born of fornication, if he had lived, would have weakened the nation and strengthened the enemies of that nation and all History after that would have been very different.

Also, it is true that the child died but it was his father who suffered. I shall say that the child died, not because of his father's sin, but for the nation of Israel, a hero.

It is written that God does take people for the sake of righteousness. Isn't it?

 

[omega2xx]

Yes, it is far too contradictory to be true.

2KI 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.


Ezra 2:15
The children of Adin, four hundred fifty and four.

Nehemiah 7:20
The children of Adin, six hundred fifty and five.


2 Samuel 8:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen.

1 Chronicles 18:4
And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen.

1 Machabees 4:28
Lysias gathered together threescore thousand chosen men, and five thousand horsemen.

2 Machabees 11:2
Lysias ... Gathered together fourscore thousand men, and all the horsemen, and came against the Jews.


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You have presented one tough nut to crack and I will have to do a little tap dancing to get around it. One problem is that we do not and original mss and scribal errors in something as detailed as the Bible is, would likely happen occasionally. God could have easily kept the errors out. so IMO, leaving them in is to test our faith. None of the errors change any basic doctrine of Christianity, and If I could only find 3, I would consider that of no importance.

The only difference in 8 in Hebrew is III IIII preceded by something that looks like a shepherds crook. 18 is III IIII without the crook. It easy or me to consider the shepherd's crook got smudged in the original causing the scribe not use it if he could not know exactly what it was.

Adin's children

The number in Ezra was during the time of the captivity. The number in Nehemiah was after their release from captivity, approximately 40 years later.

Number of David's horsemen

This is and obvious scribal error. Evidently the word for chariot was inadvertently omitted by the scribe in copying 2 Samuel 8:14 for the simple reason no one wold write 7000, after he had written 1000, after recording of the same figure.

The reference to Machabees might be a problem for Catholics but not for Protestants.

If that is the best Bible critics can do, I will stick with the rest of the Bible which has more truth that can be proved.

 

[savagewind]

God could have easily kept the errors out. so IMO, leaving them in is to test our faith.

I agree with this

None of the errors change any basic doctrine of Christianity,

How do you know this?

and If I could only find 3, I would consider that of no importance.

I have found many more than three and I have posted about them all. Each one I have found is capable of changing a believers life-course imho. If a mistake can change a perosn's life-course, can it still be of no importance?

 

[Thief]

Is the Bible too contradictory for all of it to be true? I've heard that said about the Bible, but I don't know enough about it. What do you think?

any discussion can be cherry-picked

and metaphors and parables are an Open Door