Hmm. How I see it is they are both interchangeable and embedded rather than one coming from another.
Interesting...
Yet... can't we change the physical because of the spiritual? In other words, physically my friends with had an inoperable brain tumor with a short death sentence. Spiritually we prayed and the doctors don't understand why it changed.
We understand that as the spiritual affects the natural. But we don't have an example where the natural affects the spiritual
Christianeese, I like that.
I wonder why you
felt you were in chains, all because you have sinned.
Better?
LOL... MUUUCH better
Good questions and actually this is the first time I would express this to a Buddhist so I am trying to address it in a way that is understandble since my foundational beliefs are founded on a Christian understanding. I believe you would call it "karma". Judmental attitudes brings on judgment. If I am carrying unforgiveness, I am chained to that which I am not forgiving.
LOL... did I win something?
The illusion is real rather than fake. I feel that everyone is in an illusion in their mind (and that illusion is real) and therefore to get out of discord in that illusion, one needs to train their mind to do so. I always felt its something you can do for yourself personally (human beings in general).
As noted before... the difference. Christianity is God lifting us up to perfection vs. man,s ability butI understand the principle. (There is a Christian version to that). In that we believe that there is a spirit that is different from the mind (soul), I would agree with the principle concerning the mind yet will still hold that it not changing the spirit of the person.
A man can eat glass by sheer will power or sleep on a bed of nails. The mind does have an ascendency over the body. Our belief is that the third part (you spirit) has an ascdency over both the mind and the body. You
can let the physical affect the mind but it is by permission only for the mind is superior to the physical. Likewise the soul can affect your spirit but by permission only for the spirit is superior to both the mind and the body.
Why not? What's the difference between chanting, praying, studying god's word, and meditating?
Again... I hope this doesn't come across offensive in any way... just explaining.
Since we believe you can talk to God, we talk. That's why Jesus said "When you pray, don't keep repeating yourself thinking that because of constant repeating God will hear you more" (my updated 5.5 version).
We explain it this way... "Imagine a child saying to you "can I have a candy" and repeating it ad infinitum. It will more likely cause us to say "YOU AIN'T GETTING NOTHING" (double negative at that)
Studying, praying and meditating, in the Christian world, doesn't include repeating oneself (at least not to my knowledge)
Yes. I think the only big difference in this case is you look to someone else who had helped you. We look (always present tense) to ourselves.
Understand you.
I guess that's another way to put it. Sounds nicer. Nuns and monks give up material to devote themselves to their practice. It's not giving up but more saying "god you are more important." I value monastics of any religion. I honestly think it's an ego thing to put other things and people over our spiritual well-being. But I like my family, internet, and good book to read. Who can part??
ROFL
I certainly can agree that ego is the part that we all have to deal with and certainly there are Christian denominations who value that lifestyle. On our non-denominational side, we believe in using them as tools rather than giving it up. As an example(exaggerating it for demonstration purposes), I can give up money and live off the land, plowing it by hand and sharing what I produce (and, actually, if that person does it for God, God receives it as a worship (Romans 14), or I can take money, buy a plot of land and a tractor, still share the produce, sell the rest and start an orphanage. Again... if we do it for God, God receives it.
BUT, as you noted, if you do it for personal ego sake (and you can leave everything and still have an ego saying "I have left everything... not like the rest of the world... OH how great I am) and it isn't worth anything, whether you give away millions or give away your materiality.
Yeah. I used sin so you can kinda understand what I mean. Practicing The Dharma such as purification rituals clears up one's illusions. When one is illusioned in thought or have distorted thoughts, we "sin." We commit acts contrary to our true nature of compassion and generosity. When we display the opposite of sin such as good deeds, we purify that sin. If we can do that on a routine basis, that even better.
Think of it like this:
You have someone who came from a war. He developed PTSD from shooting a young child. That event affected his consciousness. The stimuli from the physical and mental emotions involved in that action affected him. When he developed PTSD, it means those actions went to his subconscious. Thereby, in present day, if he feels like he is threatened he acts the same way as he did at war. It's an automatic behavioral trait.
In Buddhism, it says that these events, the strong ones, not only affect our Con and Sub, it also affects our Unconscious. The actions make imprints on our Un. to where it cannot be taken away by an outside party because it's so strong that it needs self purification. So we do meditation that calms our Con. We do insight meditation to address our Sub. I'm still learning, but then there are other meditations that go to the root of the problem, the imprints. Thereby purifying the imprints, cleans both the Sub and Con so we won't be affected.
We do this on a daily routine basis. It's a rough translation of what I learned about the nature of our actions and how they influence us. In my opinion, that's probably why you were in spiritual discord. You had a lot of karma you needed to work out. As for how you worked it out, it's not Buddhist concept, of course; but, it helped so it's all good.
Interesting... I hadn't noticed the word karma here before I wrote about it above;
Thanks for explaining. There are many principles that you are talking about that can be related to Christianity.
In our case, we believe the spirit is in complete accord (no discord) once you are "born-again" and thus, all we have left to do is just work on the mind (soul)
It's not negative. It's more devoting oneself to god rather than enjoying the obstructions of attachments and obstructions that lead one away from god. Some people feel these material obstructions harm their spiritual well being and want to devote themselves to god in a community atmosphere. Others do not. I think it's personal choice more so than who is right or wrong.
Agreed that each person is different and, for some, matrial can obstruct their spiritual well being.
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That's another place we differ too. The karmic imprints/roots we can cleanse. That's the only way we can have good fruit. I understand the need for a gardener. A lot of us take up classes ourselves.
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Again... so much is the same (although there are differences). We do cleanse our minds and weed the garden (Mark 4). Is there a difference for you between the mind and the spirit?
Have a great day.
