Is the cosmos "fine-tuned"?

[Sapiens]

Well thank you very much...you can lead a horse to water but....

You have not made any case for your beliefs, you have wronged science and falsely demeaned the way it is conducted. You should be ashamed of yourself. The best that can be said for you is that you're just running your mouth about something you know nothing about. The worst that can be reasonably said about you would get me sanctioned in this forum.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You have not made any case for your beliefs, you have wronged science and falsely demeaned the way it is conducted. You should be ashamed of yourself. The best that can be said for you is that you're just running your mouth about something you know nothing about. The worst that can be reasonably said about you would get me sanctioned in this forum.

Goodness gracious me...throwing a tizzy are we....never mind, sometimes it is good for the ego to let it out...you'll survive....and btw, consider yourself forgiven for your lapse of decorum already....

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

That's correct...the analogy was just that....and written by a theosophist as a part of introducing people to the theosophical view of existence... Theosophy does not ever try to provide evidence of anything on the basis of an analogy.... except a principle....the principle being that complex existence is no accident...there needs to be preexisting human order to allow for the creation of a human structure.....and the universe also is ordered, so all the apparent parts exist and act according to the cosmic order.....

But I feel our human-ness is precisely what drives us to find these "human" explanations for things - these inadequate analogies and what we seem to feel are prerequisites for the universe - all drawn from experiences within our horribly limited access and scope. I'm very sure that some day (as has happened countless times in the past) the human race will awaken to knowledge that will point us to the truth of our ignorance.

 

[outhouse]

Where did you get that from...please provide some evidence?

ah right here.

the principle being that complex existence is no accident...

 

[outhouse]

You have not made any case for your beliefs, you have wronged science and falsely demeaned the way it is conducted. You should be ashamed of yourself. The best that can be said for you is that you're just running your mouth about something you know nothing about. The worst that can be reasonably said about you would get me sanctioned in this forum.

Some people purposely dance around the center on the room, avoiding corners.

They know they have no defendable position, and demand we listen to their vague propositions.

 

[Sapiens]

Goodness gracious me...throwing a tizzy are we....never mind, sometimes it is good for the ego to let it out...you'll survive....and btw, consider yourself forgiven for your lapse of decorum already....

Even in abject defeat Ben treats us to two parts insult and one part defiant strawman, he's quite the piece of work.

Deal with this: Statistical Physics of Adaptation

and this: Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But I feel our human-ness is precisely what drives us to find these "human" explanations for things - these inadequate analogies and what we seem to feel are prerequisites for the universe - all drawn from experiences within our horribly limited access and scope. I'm very sure that some day (as has happened countless times in the past) the human race will awaken to knowledge that will point us to the truth of our ignorance.

I find you quite obtuse...it has been explained to you the purpose of an analogy...it serves the purpose of showing a principle....if it does this, it can not be considered inadequate regardless of your human-ness..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

ah right here.

Ok..I commented.."the principle being that complex existence is no accident..."
So....where's the mythology in implying that complex systems require an ordering principle....are you still trolling?

 

[outhouse]

So....where's the mythology

Where isn't it?

are you still trolling?

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Where isn't it?

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

Yes...you are almost always trolling imho....when you are provided with precise answers......you just ignore it and carry on with your childish 'unsubstantiated rhetoric' or some such responses... I suspect you will want to have the last word here so go ahead and show us your brilliant come back...

 

[outhouse]

you are almost always trolling

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

You didn't disappoint....let's forget about the trolling for now and let me try and do what hitherto has not been achieved...and that is to pin you down...

You said...."The OP is about a fine tuned universe. You have implied you think it is. Wondering what you have beyond faith."

I responded...."Where did you get that from...please provide some evidence?"

You said in response..."ah right here. "ben d said: 'the principle being that complex existence is no accident' "

I responded..."So....where's the mythology in implying that complex systems require an ordering principle."

You said in response..."Where isn't it?"

Now honestly, I find your "where isn't it?" a totally obfuscating response and I am none the wiser. I do not see any mythological implication in my comment...can you please be more specific and explain clearly the offending faith/myth part?.

No rhetorical obfuscation please...

 

[outhouse]

Provide sources. Your opinion means little in a scientific thread.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The OP is about a fine tuned universe.

You have implied you think it is. Wondering what you have beyond faith.

Where did you get that from...please provide some evidence?

ah right here.

ben d said:
the principle being that complex existence is no accident...

Ok..I commented.."the principle being that complex existence is no accident..."
So....where's the mythology in implying that complex systems require an ordering principle....are you still trolling?

Where isn't it?

Now honestly, I find your "where isn't it?" a totally obfuscating response and I am none the wiser. I do not see any mythological implication in my comment...can you please be more specific and explain clearly the offending faith/myth part?.

No further rhetorical obfuscation please...

 

[outhouse]

Provide sources. Your opinion is not the standard here.

 

[outhouse]

.."the principle being that complex existence is no accident..."

Provide credible sources. Stop dodging the point

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Trying to have an intelligent exchange with outhouse is like dealing with a bucket of worms.....and how appropriate to go with an outhouse....

 

[outhouse]

Trying to have an intelligent exchange with outhouse is like dealing with a bucket of worms.....and how appropriate to go with an outhouse....

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Is that what you call it, when people ask you to substantiated your position?

You mean a worm....

 

[shawn001]

Even in abject defeat Ben treats us to two parts insult and one part defiant strawman, he's quite the piece of work.

Deal with this: Statistical Physics of Adaptation

and this: Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism

I enjoyed the Geology link, thanks for posting it.