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Is the "crcifixion" just a metaphor?

outhouse

Atheistically
@nash8

Buddy, I don't need an alternative hypkthesis other than that there were plenty of breakaway sects at the time.

That's it.

That explains the evidence in questiin just as well as your hypothesis.


It does not explain anything at all.


Why would a Hellenistic sect in the Diaspora start claiming a Galilean peasant Jew was their savior ?

And not just one sect, many communities in different locations all write about Their version of what happened?


Why did Paul write about this one Galilean?
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
It does not explain anything at all.


Why would a Hellenistic sect in the Diaspora start claiming a Galilean peasant Jew was their savior ?

And not just one sect, many communities in different locations all write about Their version of what happened?


Why did Paul write about this one Galilean?

Asking 'How else could you explain ____________ ? Is not evidence, you are just trying to shift the burden of proof.

Where is the evidence?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
you are just trying to shift the burden of proof.

NO

I am simply asking you to explain it, explain the evidence, and your ignorance to the topic at hand has now been played out with your silence.


Paul is evidence
Gospels are evidence
Historians of antiquity are evidence


Good or bad, accurate or inaccurate, fact or fiction, reality or mythology it is evidence FACTUALLY in place, that YOU have to deal with.

OR finds another topic you think you can dip your toes into, and tell me what the bottom of the sea looks like :slap:
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
You can take it to be. It parallels with other mythologies in relation ti Ishtar and Inanna so I myself would take it to be a metaphor indeed.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
NO

I am simply asking you to explain it, explain the evidence, and your ignorance to the topic at hand has now been played out with your silence.

Explain what? There are vague reports from Tacitus and Jpsephus suggesting that an unnamed holy man existed at the time and was later crucified. What is there to explain?


Paul is evidence
Gospels are evidence
Historians of antiquity are evidence

Which is what you are being asked - WHICH HISTORIANS OF ANTIQITY?

You have been asked over and over - OTHER THAN Tacitus and Josephus, who wrote a few words a gereration later WHICH historians of antiquity are evidence?

:slap:
 

outhouse

Atheistically
- OTHER THAN Tacitus and Josephus,





Combined with the gospels they are enough evidence.


Explain what?



explain the evidence. I think you have comprehensive issues, you don't seem to understand any of this coming or going.





Dancing around the subject only displays your ignorance on the topic.



Paul is evidence, explain why he wrote what he did.


Gospels are evidence, explain why different communities wrote what they did.

Historians of antiquity are evidence, explain why they wrote what they did.


EXPLAIN why not one person or community questioned his existence.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Why would a Hellenistic sect in the Diaspora start claiming a Galilean peasant Jew was their savior ?

And not just one sect, many communities in different locations all write about Their version of what happened?


Why did Paul write about this one Galilean?
 

steeltoes

Junior member
Your on ignore, you wont be replied to.


Different communities wrote about his crucifixion for hundreds of years, with not one community or person, not even his enemies, claimed he did not exist, or did not die on a cross.

Within 15 years of his historical crucifixion, Paul began writing, and not once questioned his death or existance. NOR did anyone question Pauls view of Jesus historicity. Not one person said Paul your writing about a myth. NO ONE!


Now you cant refute any of that with credibility.

Paul never mentioned a Jesus of Nazareth so I don't know what you are talking about.
 

steeltoes

Junior member
Why would a Hellenistic sect in the Diaspora start claiming a Galilean peasant Jew was their savior ?

And not just one sect, many communities in different locations all write about Their version of what happened?

Mark's story is the only story we have, the other gospel writers are dependent on it. Read about the synoptic problem.
 

Knight of Albion

Well-Known Member
The crucifixion part of the NT always seemed slightly sketchy to me, and the "narrative ends quickly..is the crucifixion merely a convenient way to end the story? Is it just saying ,Jesus left'... /went to india or whatever/..

Any opinions on this?

A good question. My interpretation is as follows.

Firstly - putting the editing and image making of Orthodoxy to one side - you must remember the role of Jesus was that of teacher (of Christ Consciousness). So many aspects of his life and travels, though intriguing, have no direct bearing on that role and purpose. The jewel is the message.

Secondly, like so much of the New Testament, there is both an exoteric and an esoteric meaning.

The Crucifixion and later 'Resurrection' contains several hidden meanings.

To highlight survival and the continuity of life is the obvious one.

Another is to oppose the abominable blood sacrifices. (As if God were a bloodthirsty monster to want such things.) Christ, the Lamb of God, gave himself as the sacrifice, as atonement for the sin against love. Exemplifying that what is required of man is not a blood sacrifice, but a love sacrifice i.e. Service.

Which leads us to the main allegory. That, if we earnestly wish to advance upon the spiritual path, then we must 'crucify' the lower self to allow the higher self to come to ascendency.

Beautiful spiritual truths. The very core of Christ Consciousness teaching is there.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I've known of Tacitus on Christ for many years. Outhouse doesn't refer to it because he knows that it's late, much later than the gospels were written, and that Tacitus is merely passing along common beliefs of the Christians of that time.

Outhouse is not presenting any evidence because he can't.

Is there evidence which supports non-crucifixion?

"Christianity" was a movement with missing leader. What do you think happened to their Messiah?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Outhouse doesn't refer to it because he knows that it's late, much later than the gospels were written, and that Tacitus is merely passing along common beliefs of the Christians of that time.


That is correct. I do avoid all later works and that includes what the church fathers state because it has no real value, trying to understand the Galilean.

Later historians and church fathers are important. They show how the different movements were evolving. And what kinds of different beliefs were floating around.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Is there evidence which supports non-crucifixion?

"

None at all.


There is no explanation what so ever for what Paul wrote, or what is written in the gospels.


A few genius types have tried, and failed laughably, Carrier and Price.
 

allright

Active Member
The Jewish Talmud

Tractate Sanhedrin 43a

"Jesus was hanged on Passover Eve" "He practiced sorcery and led Israel astray"
 
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