• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is the Day/Year theory scriptural?

Arlanbb

Active Member
There are three text that are used to prove the Day/Year theory Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:34 and Dan 8:14. Only Ezekiel and Numbers uses the word "day" for the Hebrew word "yown". Most of the newer and better translations of Dan 8:14 give it this meaning "2,300 evenings and mornings" or 1150 days becaue each day is composed of one evening and one morning. The Adventist church has built its foundation on Dan 8:14 = 1844 by using a day/year theory that is not in this scripture. And other comment?? arlan :confused:
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
The theories aren't biblical as such. They are theories about how to piece together scripture. I find them arcane and unconvincing. What would a "biblical" method of interpretation look like?
 
There are three text that are used to prove the Day/Year theory Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:34 and Dan 8:14. Only Ezekiel and Numbers uses the word "day" for the Hebrew word "yown". Most of the newer and better translations of Dan 8:14 give it this meaning "2,300 evenings and mornings" or 1150 days becaue each day is composed of one evening and one morning. The Adventist church has built its foundation on Dan 8:14 = 1844 by using a day/year theory that is not in this scripture. And other comment?? arlan :confused:
Is this method of calculating days something you made up or is it something you have a source for? I mean is there some sort of consensus among scientists that think this is the proper way to count days, by dividing the number by two. I do not remember hearing anyone saying this was correct.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
InGodWeTrust ~ It has nothing to do with scientist but Hebrew language. In my Harper Study bible RSV listed on the bottom of page 1310 has this note:
"Heb. 8.14 evening and mornings, i.e. successive evening and mornings, 1150 days" arlan
 
InGodWeTrust ~ It has nothing to do with scientist but Hebrew language. In my Harper Study bible RSV listed on the bottom of page 1310 has this note:
"Heb. 8.14 evening and mornings, i.e. successive evening and mornings, 1150 days" arlan
Ok, thanks, I will see if I can look it up.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
InGodWeTrust ~ If I said to you "I have 2,300 apples and bananas in equal amounts" HOW many apples would I have and HOW many bananas would I have? According to the old math I was brought up on I would have 1500 apples and 1500 bananas. My 20 year old CASIO College fx-80 scientific calculator gives me the same answer when i divide 2300 by 2 = 1500. Now maybe you were brought up on this New Math and you have a different figure than my Old Math. arlan
 

Yid613

Member
And he said to me, "Until evening and morning, two thousand and three hundred, and the holy ones shall be exonerated." - Daniel 8:14

Until evening and morning, one thousand and three hundred I saw an interpretation in the name of Rav Saadia Gaon for this matter, but it has already passed, and he interpreted further “until evening and morning,” that evening about which it says (Zech. 14:7): “and it shall come to pass that at eventide it shall be light,” and we are confident that our God’s word will stand forever; it will not be nullified. I say, however, that the עֶרֶב and בֹּקֶר stated here are a gematria, and there is support for this matter from two reasons: 1) that this computation should coincide with the other computation at the end of the Book, and 2) that Gabriel said to Daniel later on in this chapter (verse 26): “And the vision of the evening and the morning is true.” Now, if he had not hinted that the computation was doubtful, why did he repeat it to say that it was true? And the seer was commanded to close up and to seal the matter, and to him, too, the matter was revealed in a closed and sealed expression, but we will hope for the promise of our king for end after end, and when the end passes, it will be known that the expounder has erred in his interpretation, and the one who comes after him will search and expound in another manner. This can be interpreted [as follows]: namely, that עֶרֶב בֹּקֶר has the numerical value of 574, ע = 70; ר = 200; ב = 2; ב = 2; ק = 100; ר = 200. Added together, this equals 574; plus 2,300, we have 2,874. - Rashi on Daniel 8:14

and the holy ones shall be exonerated The iniquity of Israel shall be expiated to bring an end to the decrees of their being trodden upon and crumbled since they were exiled in their first exile to Egypt, until they will be redeemed and saved with a perpetual salvation by our king Messiah, and this computation terminates at the end of 1, 290 years from the day the daily sacrifice was removed, and that is what is stated at the end of the Book (12:11): “And from the time the daily sacrifice is removed, and the silent abomination placed, will be 1,290 years,” and no more, for our king Messiah will come and remove the silent abomination. The daily sacrifice was removed six years before the destruction of the Second Temple, and an image was set up in the Heichal. Now that was the seventeenth day of Tammuz, when Apostomos burned the Torah, put an end to the daily sacrifice, and set up an image in the Heichal, as we learned in Tractate Ta’anith (26b), but for the six years that I mentioned, I have no explicit proof, but there is proof that the daily sacrifice was abolished less than a complete shemittah cycle before the destruction, for so did Daniel prophesy about Titus (9:27): “… and half the week of years [shemittah cycle] he will curtail sacrifice and meal-offering,” meaning that a part of the week of years before the destruction, sacrifices will be abolished. So it is explained below in this section. Let us return to the earlier matters, how the computation of “evening and morning, two thousand and three hundred,” fits exactly with the time commencing from the descent to Egypt to terminate at the end of 1,290 years until the day that the daily sacrifice was abolished: 210 years they were in Egypt. 480 years transpired from the Exodus until the building of the Temple. 410 years the Temple existed. 70 years was the Babylonian exile. 420 years the Second Temple stood. 1,290 should be added until the end of days, totaling: 2,880. Subtract six years that the daily sacrifice was removed before the destruction, for Scripture counted 1,290 years only from the time that the daily sacrifice was removed. Here you have the computation of “evening and morning, and 2,300” added to the computation. Fortunate is he who waits and reaches the end of days 45 years over 1,290 [years]. We may say that the king Messiah will come according to the first computation, and he will subsequently be concealed from them for forty-five years. Rabbi Elazar HaKalir established (in the concluding poem of the portion dealing with the month of Nissan): in the foundation of his song: six weeks of years, totaling 42. We may say that the three years that did not total a week of years he did not count. And I found it so in Midrash Ruth that the king Messiah is destined to be concealed for forty-five years after he reveals himself, and proof is brought from these verses.
- Rashi on Daniel 8:14
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
Yid613 ~ Somewhere along the way I got lost with all of your numbers, - 574, 2874, 1290, 480, 210, 410, 70, 2880, -6, 45 etc. Some of those i couldn't find in the bible??

On my post just before I wrote down the wrong total for 1/2 of 2300 evenings & mornings = or 1150 days. I didn't see this figure in your post above Yid613? arlan
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
There are three text that are used to prove the Day/Year theory Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:34 and Dan 8:14. Only Ezekiel and Numbers uses the word "day" for the Hebrew word "yown". Most of the newer and better translations of Dan 8:14 give it this meaning "2,300 evenings and mornings" or 1150 days becaue each day is composed of one evening and one morning. The Adventist church has built its foundation on Dan 8:14 = 1844 by using a day/year theory that is not in this scripture. And other comment?? arlan :confused:

The problem is that your math and interpretation doesn't pan out. At half the number of days you would have the Messiah coming in 200BC. The whole time till the end is 2520 days and it has already passed without incident. Even Nostradamus predicted the same year but the only thing that happened was that Isreal realized that it would never be at peace with her enemies.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
MUFFLED ~ Where in these scriptures, Dan 8: 9-27, dose it say this applies to the messiah? If i'm note mistaked many of the Jews think the little horn was Antiochus Epiphanes who in 168 BC profaned the Jewish temple and sought to stamp out the Jewish religion altogether. V26 said it was to happen in many days hence. arlan
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
MUFFLED ~ Where in these scriptures, Dan 8: 9-27, dose it say this applies to the messiah? If i'm note mistaked many of the Jews think the little horn was Antiochus Epiphanes who in 168 BC profaned the Jewish temple and sought to stamp out the Jewish religion altogether. V26 said it was to happen in many days hence. arlan

I am referring to
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.

Cyrus gave the order to rebuild Jersalem sometime in the fifth century BC. The 70 weeks work out as 7 X 70 = 490. I don't have the exact dates at hand but you ought to be able to see that the anointed one appears in the first century AD.

Then this one for the end:
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

I took a time as 490 years, so two and one half times is 1225 for the first half and 1225 for the second half = 2450 years but for some reason another 70 are added on but I don't remember why. The prophecy was given somewhere around 521BC which would give 1999 the year Nostradamus predicted for Aramageddon.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
MUFFLED ~ The scripture we have been talking about in this thread is Dan 8:14. This has to do with the vision of the ram [Medo-Pursia] and the he-goat [Greece] which is in chapture 8. This vision has to do with what is to happen to the Hebrew people and the Hebrews say that the little horn is Antiochus Epiphanes. At the end of Dan 8:15-26 Gabriel explains the vision and it fits right in with what Epiphanes did to the Hebrew people in 168BC. Dan 9 is a new and latter vision with a different interpretation at the end. I have found that over the years most religious people get all mixed up with these visions in Dan and twist them around to make what ever they want out of them to fit their own ideas. The real question is are all these numbers given here to be taken symbolically like in ch, 12:11,12 or for real. It is best not to mix up the different visions if you want to understand them properly. arlan
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
MUFFLED ~ The scripture we have been talking about in this thread is Dan 8:14. This has to do with the vision of the ram [Medo-Pursia] and the he-goat [Greece] which is in chapture 8. This vision has to do with what is to happen to the Hebrew people and the Hebrews say that the little horn is Antiochus Epiphanes. At the end of Dan 8:15-26 Gabriel explains the vision and it fits right in with what Epiphanes did to the Hebrew people in 168BC. Dan 9 is a new and latter vision with a different interpretation at the end. I have found that over the years most religious people get all mixed up with these visions in Dan and twist them around to make what ever they want out of them to fit their own ideas. The real question is are all these numbers given here to be taken symbolically like in ch, 12:11,12 or for real. It is best not to mix up the different visions if you want to understand them properly. arlan

Wkipedia say that AE ruled betwee 175 and 164BC. From there you would get a date of 2125 AD at the earliest.

My numbers were wrong earlier. It has been such a long time; I have a hard time remembering. The time was taken as 360 days (number of days in a year at that time) so 7 x 360 gives 2520. Of course prophecy is given by God who knows that a year is 365 days so maybe we have to add 35 years to 1999 to get to the end at 2034.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
MUFFLED ~ The point I was making is that the word for "day" in Dan. 8:14 is not there so without a "day" word in the text you can not apply a "day/year" in Dan. 8:14 to prove anything. The Hebrews say it was AE that fulfilled Dan 8:14 so if it has already been fulfilled it can't be used for anything else. arlan
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
MUFFLED ~ The point I was making is that the word for "day" in Dan. 8:14 is not there so without a "day" word in the text you can not apply a "day/year" in Dan. 8:14 to prove anything. The Hebrews say it was AE that fulfilled Dan 8:14 so if it has already been fulfilled it can't be used for anything else. arlan

The Hebrews can claim that but it doesn't agree with scripture because the vision goes further than AE.

Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was affrighted, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man; for the vision belongeth to the time of the end.

There is a theory in Christian circles about threefold fulfillment. Three abominations of desolation, three destructions of the Temple and Three dispersions of the Jewish people.

The Temple was destroyed for a second time and the Jewish people dispersed in 70AD at the hands of the Romans. And I would call the setting up of a statue of the Roman emperor in the temple as the abomination of desolation. Christians look for a third Temple to be built and its destruction also at the time of the end. The acceptance of the Anti-Christ as the Messiah by Jews leads to the veneration of an image in the Temple which is the third abomination of desolation.
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
MUFFLED ~ What is the "Time of the End"in 8:17. If you will read verse 19 it is "at the latter end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time of the end." The end of what? In reading vrs 20 through 25 Daniel tells us it is the end of the four nations that came out of Greece would be the LITTLE HORN. This started to happened about 300 BC and ended in 168BC. This all happens years before Christ time. As I pointed out before there is no word for DAYS in 8:14 so you can not apply a day for a year here. If you do your twisting scripture to make it say something you want it to say and that is not right. arlan
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
MUFFLED ~ What is the "Time of the End"in 8:17. If you will read verse 19 it is "at the latter end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time of the end." The end of what? In reading vrs 20 through 25 Daniel tells us it is the end of the four nations that came out of Greece would be the LITTLE HORN. This started to happened about 300 BC and ended in 168BC. This all happens years before Christ time. As I pointed out before there is no word for DAYS in 8:14 so you can not apply a day for a year here. If you do your twisting scripture to make it say something you want it to say and that is not right. arlan
I think after a thorough read of this passage I would have to agree with you.
 

Runlikethewind

Monk in Training
Can you elaborate on this day/year concept, I am not familiar with it. Does it have anything to do with calculating the age of the earth in years based on the six days of creation in Genesis 1 or is that something else entirely?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Most of the newer and better translations of Dan 8:14 give it this meaning "2,300 evenings and mornings" or 1150 days becaue each day is composed of one evening and one morning.
The most natural reading would seem to be "2300 (evenings & mornings)" or "2300 days."
 
Top