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Is the evolutionary doctrine a racist doctrine?

Eli G

Well-Known Member
I grew up well understanding those arguments as I attended a fundamentalist Protestant church but left in my mid-20's. I also taught both Christian and Jewish theology, including a comparative religions course.
You are confirming my point: you don't understand that I try to reason as a rational individual with my own criteria, not because someone has taught me how to reason. Evidently, you are seeing me as a representative of some group and not as a person who thinks for himself and comes to reasonable and intelligent conclusions... Somehow that is prejudice, and it prevents you from understanding my reasoning.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
You are confirming my point: you don't understand that I try to reason as a rational individual with my own criteria, not because someone has taught me how to reason. Evidently, you are seeing me as a representative of some group and not as a person who thinks for himself and comes to reasonable and intelligent conclusions... Somehow that is prejudice, and it prevents you from understanding my reasoning.
Actually, with the above, it is you that's questioning my reasoning, and I have never implied that you can't think for yourself or that I am "prejudiced" against you.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Actually, with the above, it is you that's questioning my reasoning, and I have never implied that you can't think for yourself or that I am "prejudiced" against you.
Then tell me what I meant here:
There are many limits on the reproduction even of individuals of the same species.

A pair of humans, for example, cannot always manage to generate a new generation for many reasons, and many times the offspring does not survive for reasons that are beyond the control of the couple.

Evolutionists want us to believe that the conditions in which a supposedly advanced male ape found and reproduced with a female individual compatible with him were something so easy to achieve, that not only a couple of advanced apes managed to produce one human, but an entire population of humans emerged as if by magic. :)
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Evidently, before answering a post, the first thing to do is understanding not only what it says but what it means.

What does this post mean?
For an entire community of genetically compatible individuals of the same species to appear, there must have been at least one couple formed by an advanced male individual who found a female genetically compatible with him, and they had offspring with different characteristics from previous generations.

This event had to be repeated many times so that a community of modern humans could be formed, since many compatible male and female had to meet to continue transmitting such characteristics, not only biological, but also intellectual. All these couples must conformed a community after that, so they must meet each other and reunite in a same group to finally make a human tribe.

That scenario does not seem very likely statistically, especially when modern evolutionists claim that modern man emerged in a single locality and only later did the different human races emerge.
Think about it, and later answer: why does that argument make a lot of sense?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
There are many limits on the reproduction even of individuals of the same species.

A pair of humans, for example, cannot always manage to generate a new generation for many reasons, and many times the offspring does not survive for reasons that are beyond the control of the couple.

Evolutionists want us to believe that the conditions in which a supposedly advanced male ape found and reproduced with a female individual compatible with him were something so easy to achieve, that not only a couple of advanced apes managed to produce one human, but an entire population of humans emerged as if by magic. :)
No. Evolution says no such thing.

You've just made this up, based on your complete and total misunderstanding of what evolution is in the first place.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You're not in my ignore list. But you don't seem to understand my arguments. What I am not asking for is for indoctrination.

Have a good one. :)
Your arguments don't make any sense and reflect your utter lack of understanding of basic biology and evolutionary theory.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Evidently, before answering a post, the first thing to do is understanding not only what it says but what it means.

What does this post mean?

Think about it, and later answer: why does that argument make a lot of sense?
It makes zero sense if you understand evolution.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
And yet, monkeys do not become humans. :)
which brings up a good question perhaps for scientists to investigate: if a chimpanzee is taught to recognize human language, as I understand they can be taught to recognize some sign language, have scientists decided if the genetic structure might change even in the slightest degree as they're taught by humans or otherwise? Of course the following involves humans, not chimpanzees, but scientists have not determined the particular genes that determine particular intelligence levels. And I wonder if the genes change as an organism like a chimpanzee grows older, meaning as they become more aware of their surroundings.
"Studies have shown that intelligence has a genetic component, but they have not conclusively identified any single genes that have major roles in differences in intelligence.Aug 1, 2023

Is intelligence determined by genetics? - MedlinePlus​

1712680044184.png
MedlinePlus (.gov)
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Answering "populations are what evolve" does not refute or explain the above. Why? Because the previous post (post#586) refers to the fact that a change from one species to another must necessarily begin with an individual that changes at the same time that a specimen of the opposite sex compatible with it appears at the same time, and both individuals meet and transmit genetically species changes to the new generation. Then this process is repeated continuously and in the end all the new individuals meet and form a community of similar individuals that continue to procreate and reproduce the supposed new BIOLOGICAL species.

So if the first events do not happen, the last does not come to pass.

PS: Wolves are nothing more than wild dogs, the same species in a different variety. They reproduce with each other. Humans and apes do not reproduce with each other. A comparison between those relationships is ridiculous. Species can diversify, but they never become new species; believing that this happened in some remote past even if you have never seen it happen is to believe in a myth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Then tell me what I meant here:
that seems correct to me. But who am I? (It doesn't make sense to me that after a looonnngggg period of time, some UCA (unknown Common Ancestor) of apes mated enough with enough mutations to branch out to gorillas, humans, chimpanzees, etc.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
that seems correct to me. But who am I? (It doesn't make sense to me that after a looonnngggg period of time, some UCA (unknown Common Ancestor) of apes mated enough with enough mutations to branch out to gorillas, humans, chimpanzees, etc.
That is because you still have many fundamental misunderstandings with respect to evolution. Evolution 101
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I understand that archaeologists and paleontologists have their ideas and opinions, but I go with the Bible to recognize that mankind as spoken of in the Bible is about 6,000 years old. There is no suggestion that I know of in the Bible as to exactly when writing was invented.
The traditional view is that the oldest known piece of writing we have is the Kish document, a Sumerian text dating to about 3500 BCE. However, there are some scholars who say we have older writing from the Danube Valley Civilization dating to 8000 BCE. This is less clear, as scholars debate whether the 700 or so symbols are actually writing or not.

Your belief that the earth is only 6000 years old should not prevent you from commenting on why hunter gatherer cultures never develop writing. What say you?
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Answering "populations are what evolve" does not refute or explain the above. Why? Because the previous post (post#586) refers to the fact that a change from one species to another must necessarily begin with an individual that changes at the same time that a specimen of the opposite sex compatible with it appears at the same time, and both individuals meet and transmit genetically species changes to the new generation. Then this process is repeated continuously and in the end all the new individuals meet and form a community of similar individuals that continue to procreate and reproduce the supposed new BIOLOGICAL species.

So if the first events do not happen, the last does not come to pass.

PS: Wolves are nothing more than wild dogs, the same species in a different variety. They reproduce with each other. Humans and apes do not reproduce with each other. A comparison between those relationships is ridiculous. Species can diversify, but they never become new species; believing that this happened in some remote past even if you have never seen it happen is to believe in a myth.
The "explanation above" is a strawman, it is false because it is set up to be false so that you can deny its rationality in good conscience while never addressing the the argument that the Theory of Evolution actually makes. Evolution 101
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Those indoctrinated in the teaching of the evolution of apes into humans believe that in order to reason on the basis of that doctrine one must be indoctrinated in it.

For some reason they believe that those who do not consider themselves apes cannot reason correctly. :facepalm:
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
which brings up a good question perhaps for scientists to investigate: if a chimpanzee is taught to recognize human language, as I understand they can be taught to recognize some sign language, have scientists decided if the genetic structure might change even in the slightest degree as they're taught by humans or otherwise? Of course the following involves humans, not chimpanzees, but scientists have not determined the particular genes that determine particular intelligence levels. And I wonder if the genes change as an organism like a chimpanzee grows older, meaning as they become more aware of their surroundings.
"Studies have shown that intelligence has a genetic component, but they have not conclusively identified any single genes that have major roles in differences in intelligence.Aug 1, 2023

Is intelligence determined by genetics? - MedlinePlus

View attachment 90297
MedlinePlus (.gov)
with out even reading your link we know it does not support your idea. Look up Lamarckism which was discarded as a theory well over a hundred years ago. Evolution 101
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Answering "populations are what evolve" does not refute or explain the above. Why? Because the previous post (post#586) refers to the fact that a change from one species to another must necessarily begin with an individual that changes at the same time that a specimen of the opposite sex compatible with it appears at the same time, and both individuals meet and transmit genetically species changes to the new generation. Then this process is repeated continuously and in the end all the new individuals meet and form a community of similar individuals that continue to procreate and reproduce the supposed new BIOLOGICAL species.
Nope. That's not how it works. Hence the reason we keep having to tell you that populations evolve, rather than individuals.

Once again, evolution is the change in allele frequencies in POPULATIONS over time. You're never going to get one single "human" seeking out the only other "human" of the opposite sex to mate with. That is an absurd caricature of evolution.
So if the first events do not happen, the last does not come to pass.

PS: Wolves are nothing more than wild dogs, the same species in a different variety. They reproduce each other. Humans and apes do not reproduce with each other. A comparison between those relationships is ridiculous. Species can diversify, but they never become new species; believing that this happened in some remote past even if you have never seen it happen is to believe in a myth.
The fact that human beings have bred the wide variety of dogs that are now in existence, demonstrates that evolution is a fact of life.
If artificial selection works (e.g. dog breeding), then natural selection works as well.

My suggestion to you would be to look up "ring species."
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Those indoctrinated in the teaching of the evolution of apes into humans believe that in order to reason on the basis of that doctrine one must be indoctrinated in it.

For some reason they believe that those who do not consider themselves apes cannot reason correctly. :facepalm:
No we are just waiting for a biological definition of ape that does not include humans. If you could actually provide one, we would have to seriously consider it.
Waiting. Evolution 101
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
To understand that a population is made up of at least two individuals that can reproduce with each other, you do not need to be indoctrinated. :)
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Many breeds of dogs artificially created by geneticists demonstrate several things:

1) an intelligence is needed to direct the experiment, and
2) forced crossbreeding is defective.
 
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