Is The Hell Fire Justice

[YmirGF]

The hellfire is a symbol for seperation from the Beloved (God).

But the thing is Scott it is not possible to become separated from God. It really doesn't matter how hard one tries, one is still a part of creation and therefore an integral aspect of the One. Just a thought.

 

[cardero]

But the thing is Scott it is not possible to become separated from God. It really doesn't matter how hard one tries, one is still a part of creation and therefore an integral aspect of the One. Just a thought.

I think athiests do an acceptable job separating from GOD. I also believe that some people incarnate into a physical existence for the express purpose to get away from GOD. I would not consider this to be Hell.

 

[YmirGF]

I think athiests do an acceptable job separating from GOD.

But Patrick that is the beauty of the "real" god. It doesn't care an iota if a single being believes in its existence, it is still itself and it doesn't really need our minor thought patterns to sustain its reality.

I also believe that some people incarnate into a physical existence for the express purpose to get away from GOD.

I'm not so sure about that Patrick... but it is an interesting idea. My idea is that during the "between" time the individual gets reaquainted with their larger identity and Earth based "god" concepts (*Yawn*) tend to get blown out the window.

I would not consider this to be Hell.

Nor I. I simply have no use for the concept and though I often tell people to "go to hell" I most certainly do not mean it literally, lol. As I stated before, to my skewed sense of logic Hell is the stunted imagination of horribly repressed people who have a deep need for guilt and punishment. It is a very sad way to view the spleandor of reality.

 

[joeboonda]

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luke 10:15
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Popeyesays]

Ymir has one thing right: God needs nothing from us. He is self-subsistent--even when Creation was not, God was.

Yet the impulse to create was so strong it could not be denied.

We are the beneficiaries of the Creation, and all we need to succeed or fail is right here with us; but that makes us subsistent beings. We subsist on Creation.

So, God needs nothing from us and we need the air we breathe and the gravity which keeps us rooted to this earth, and we need our rationality which lets us fly instead of crawl.

Regards,
Scott

 

[cardero]

But Patrick that is the beauty of the "real" god. It doesn't care an iota if a single being believes in its existence, it is still itself and it doesn't really need our minor thought patterns to sustain its reality.

I agree 100%

YmirGF writes: I'm not so sure about that Patrick... but it is an interesting idea. My idea is that during the "between" time the individual gets reaquainted with their larger identity and Earth based "god" concepts (*Yawn*) tend to get blown out the window.

I do not mean to imply that GOD is intolerable or unpleasant but to simply state that if one desires the experience of a life without GOD, this physical existence provides a valid opportunity.

YmirGF writes: Nor I. I simply have no use for the concept and though I often tell people to "go to hell" I most certainly do not mean it literally, lol. As I stated before, to my skewed sense of logic Hell is the stunted imagination of horribly repressed people who have a deep need for guilt and punishment. It is a very sad way to view the spleandor of reality.

I think it is superstitious to believe in a fiery place of torment and I am not sure what disturbs me more; the hope that some people have that this place exists and that it is a fitting justice for "wrongdoers" or the faith that upholds that a Loving GOD would encourage and support such a concept.

 

[rocka21]

Matthew 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Luke 10:15
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 12:5
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luke 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

nice Joe, to bad most christians here don't think that they are true

why worry if hell fire is justice or not? just don't go there and you have no worries.:angel2:

 

[YmirGF]

Ymir has one thing right: God needs nothing from us. He is self-subsistent--even when Creation was not, God was.

Bear in mind Scott I figured that tidbit out without the aid of any of man's cute little fairy tale books.

Yet the impulse to create was so strong it could not be denied.

Yes, but do you know why it could not be denied?

We are the beneficiaries of the Creation, and all we need to succeed or fail is right here with us; but that makes us subsistent beings. We subsist on Creation.

I suppose that is one way to look at it. The difference between our viewpoints is that I do not limit my understanding to physical creation. "Creation", real "creation" is infinitely larger than our minds can normally grasp, with our physical senses. Reality is distincly different when viewed through the inner senses... which show us that we are in fact co-creators of reality.

So, God needs nothing from us and we need the air we breathe and the gravity which keeps us rooted to this earth, and we need our rationality which lets us fly instead of crawl.

You are simply stating the physical aspect of reality. "We" are a teensy bit more than our lovely children's books have ever told us. Why do you think they never seem to mention that?

Oh, and I disagree and you might have to reread what I said above, but God does need something from us. (I simply stated in a round about way that God does not require our belief in Her whatsoever. But he did create us so that he would have companions. There isn't much point being "god" if one is all by themself is there? Think about it a few decades and get back to me.

Regards,
Paul :yes:

 

[Smoke]

So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders

I think that may be the most nonsensical religious claim I've ever seen, and I've seen some whoppers. Honestly, I don't believe that any sane person really believes that. You'd have to be mentally ill to believe it.

How can incarceration in hell for an infinite duration in return for unbelief for a short duration be just?
THE ANSWER: Reckoning a year to be three hundred and sixty five days,
the law justice requires for a one- minutes murderer,seven million eitght
hundred and eighty four thousand minutes,imprisonment.
So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders, according to
the law of human justice, someone who lives a life of twenty years in
unbelief and dies in that state ddeserves imprisonment for fifty seven billion two hundred and one thousadnd two hundred million years.
It may be understood from this how conformable with Divine justice is
the verse, "THEY WILL DWELL THERE IN FOREVER" Quran 33:65

Has it occurred to you that even very large numbers are not infinite?

 

[Popeyesays]

"
Oh, and I disagree and you might have to reread what I said above, but God does need something from us. (I simply stated in a round about way that God does not require our belief in Her whatsoever. But he did create us so that he would have companions. There isn't much point being "god" if one is all by themself is there? Think about it a few decades and get back to me. "


Actually the human soul is the reason for creation, which does include more than the physical universes. My writings say that God created everything to place mankind at its pinnacle--man being that which has a rational soul and a desire to re-unite with His creator, no matter how many appendages the form might have--it's the SOUL that defines man.

My daily prayer says God created us to know and worship Him. So, is that a desire for companionship? Yeah, perhaps, but the fact is that God does not require us for His existence since He pre-existed us and everything else in the first place.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Smoke]

But the thing is Scott it is not possible to become separated from God. It really doesn't matter how hard one tries, one is still a part of creation and therefore an integral aspect of the One. Just a thought.

Alternately, it may be possible to be separated from God, provided that God is finite. I think some of the gods we hear about on these forums are very finite indeed.

 

[Popeyesays]

Well one would have to believe that God is the universe to worry about it.

Try this thought:
God is not contained in the universe, the universe is contained in God.

This implies that there is more to God than Creation.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Darkness]

Is The Hell Fire Justice

“Ah, you humans. You vaguely interesting humans. Thinking,
thinking, thinking. Right, wrong, right wrong—such futile, little
things. Everything that you do is right, because being who you are is
nothing wrong. You are fated to be who you are, destined to be who you will be as are all the others. All things are predetermined and fated, you are blameless and so are all others in Creation." -- Lucifer

 

[~Amin~]

But the thing is Scott it is not possible to become separated from God. It really doesn't matter how hard one tries, one is still a part of creation and therefore an integral aspect of the One. Just a thought.

peace
YOU,
seem to take evrything lterally seperation here means to not except God as being
source of all good.

 

[MaddLlama]

I think I'm sensing a deliberate attempt to evade my question.

 

[YmirGF]

peace
YOU,
seem to take evrything lterally seperation here means to not except God as being source of all good.

Hiya Amin.

Friend, what are you trying to say? It may be a peculiarity of being North American but here we are VERY direct. By that, I mean that we do not normally hide behind our words, but come right out and say directly what we mean. Trust me child, you do not have to describe the nature of God to me although others may learn from your naive prattle. Further to this, I do not limit God as you seem to be inclined to. What you clearly do not understand is that so-called "good" and "bad" are merely moralistic value judgments and have no real basis in reality. Things just are what they are and in our infinite wisdom we deem some actions good and some actions bad. It is a fairly narrow focus through which to perceive physical reality... let alone other far more subtle realities.

I repeat, it is simply NOT possible to become separated from what the human animals refer to as "god" as "god" imbues all creation with its essence, therefore one could say that ALL of creation is miniature manifestation of God. This "rule" applies to All That Is, period.

Primitive notions such as HellFire/Hell are merely the ramblings of the deluded and they create the reality that they envision. By believing in Hell/HellFire you add to its potential reality. By believing in Satan/Shaytan you add to its potential reality. Believing in demonic forces adds to their potential reality. I doubt I can put it much clearer.

Granted these "phantom" aspects of reality are somewhat minimal but people's continued belief in them does imbue them with a vitality of a sorts, but only to an extent. That extent is equal to the level of your belief. The only one effected by belief in Hellfire/hell/Satan/Shaytan/Demons et all is the believer themself. Please try to appreciate what I am tryig to tell you. All I can say is if you believe sincerely in any of these things you better make the correct choices or you may be in for a peck of trouble. Best of luck to you.

So I might ask, how long are people going to feed these fires with their warped doubts and fears of Justice and Judgment? At the end of the day they are not a very wise concepts, unless you wish to frighten small children or those who are "spiritually speaking" still children.

 

[YmirGF]

Alternately, it may be possible to be separated from God, provided that God is finite. I think some of the gods we hear about on these forums are very finite indeed.

I do agree MidnightBlueBoy. The vision of God as projected by so many here is so pathetic and barren of understanding. Why is it that an all-knowing infinite being would choose such feeble messengers? Sorry, I don't get it. It doesn't say much for their god, does it? I am continually reminded by the immortal words of P.T. Barnum.

 

[!Fluffy!]

So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders

I think that may be the most nonsensical religious claim I've ever seen, and I've seen some whoppers. Honestly, I don't believe that any sane person really believes that. You'd have to be mentally ill to believe it.

Seriously that is some messed up theology. I don't know if God is laughing or crying over that one...

 

[UnityNow101]

Can you blame people for their unbelief when the ones that profess faith are steeped in the same sins and nonsensical things of the world as the unbelievers are? Sitting from afar, one can see the hypocrisy of most believers, and rightly so, it sickens them. I have spent many a day wondering how so many people can profess faith in God and yet live as though there is no governing force. I too am but a hypocrite looking to find my way. But I hope and pray that I may not be that person that looks down upon the sinner and thus reveal that hypocrisy to the world.

 

[YmirGF]

But I hope and pray that I may not be that person that looks down upon the sinner and thus reveal that hypocrisy to the world.

Hehe, I look up to so-called "sinners" so I guess I don't have to be terribly concerned about hypocrisy.