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Is the idea of Fate logical?
- Thread starter Antibush5
- Start date
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It is, if our idea of chronological, linear time is an illusion, and, rather, all events are fixed.
jonman122
Active Member
depends. It could very well be that we have pre-destined futures, but if we do that would imply a complete lack of free will, something i do find a little absurd, albeit possible. If our timeline is set in stone and time-travel is possible, then fate exists. If time travel isn't possible, then fate does not exist. So far we have no evidence supporting time travel, so it's safe to say fate does not exist BUT it's possible we may sometime in the future find a way to travel forward in time or see in to the future, enabling fate to exist. it's all subjective to what we find, even if there is proof we could possibly travel forward in time, we haven't done it. nor backward. It's a fun theory to hop around though
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It appears to be a premise that is not falsifiable even in principle.
My main argument against such a concept would be the lack of evidence for it. There is nothing in physics to suggest things are determined far ahead of time. And as others have mentioned, time is not a fixed linear progression.
-Lyn
My main argument against such a concept would be the lack of evidence for it. There is nothing in physics to suggest things are determined far ahead of time. And as others have mentioned, time is not a fixed linear progression.
-Lyn
Tathagata
Freethinker
If classical Newtonian physics were true, then Determinism is true. If Determinism is true, then it follows that we all have a destined fate. (Though, some argue that fatalism and determinism are distinct.)
What is the logic behind this assertion? I don't see what time travel has to do with anything.
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jonman122 said:
What is the logic behind this assertion? I don't see what time travel has to do with anything.
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AnnaTheBeast
Member
Its illogical. It takes away all meaning to your life, and you might as well just walk around as a zombie because thats all you are. A destined path of fate without TRUE options is illogical. I could change my life RIGHT NOW if i felt like it.
Tathagata
Freethinker
Appeal to consequences fallacy. You can't call fatalism illogical, simply because you don't like the consequences (meaningless, robotic, no choice) of fate being true.
Um, that's not an argument against determinism/fatalism. This is a philosophical issue that has been debated for thousands of years and is still not resolved, so your little one liner there doesn't disprove determinism, lol.
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If fate were true, and you change your life right now, then it would have been part of your fate to change your life right now.
AnnaTheBeast
Member
Point taken. But doesn't that make free will gone so you cant have both. If your assuming you have free will with this is the point i was making. but that was never said so i guess im void.
my apologies.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Even with Newtonian physics aside determinism remains the rule of law. The only option is absolute randomness, which is even less attractive.
They are, fatalism is determinism turned into a philosophical doctrine.
dust1n
Zindīq
I don't like all that the word 'fate' carries.
However, we have determined life paths.
Good luck trying to take in all the plausible factors in determining your fate.
Cordoba
Well-Known Member
Good question
Rather than the word "fate", in Islam one of the six articles of faith is belief in "Qadar", which some translate it as "measured destiny"
From a Muslim point of view, God is The Eternal Creator
There is no separation for Him between past, present and future, as He is The Creator of time.
He sees "the future" and knows it before it happens (in our world)
There is to Him no equivalent
jonman122
Active Member
lets say it's literally impossible to view the timeline, or to see in to the past or future and only remain in the present. (this is already false because everything we perceive has already happened, but not so far in the future, just as long as it takes our brains to interpret it, so really the "present" is a kind of abstract concept that no one has ever really experienced with their senses) If it is literally impossible to view the timeline, what would be the cause? The logical assertion here is that we cannot see in to the future because the future is not yet there, it isn't made. The past is already done, we have memories of it, it could very well be possible to view the past but not the future. If we can't view either, then we can assume that we don't actually have access to the timeline as we concieve it, and determinism is possible, or if we can see in to both the past and the future, because we could see our futures and know how we will end up and what we will do. If anyone can make sense out of that anyways.
and actually here is a neat video on determinism:
YouTube - Is the Universe deterministic?
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PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
The theory of relativity tells us that the universe is a 4-dimensional construct, which would mean that the future is already pre-determined. (it would merely "exist" somewhere else in spacetime.) If you take that as an explanation of the universe, then fate would be perfectly logical.
Determinism is true, and free will is true. And logic is true, and illogic is true.
Hope that helps.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Then do so with the full knowledge that that was the determined outcome. :flirt:
Determined by you. Right. :yes:
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Determined by your psychology.
Skwim
Veteran Member
In what sense is free will true? Certainly not in the sense that human cognition, behavior, decision, and action is not determined by previous events.