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Is the Kingdom of God earthly or heavenly?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Right. It is within you. :)

Do you think the kingdom of God was within Jesus enemies the Pharisees ?____

According to Luke [ 17vs20,21] Jesus was addressing his enemies the Pharisees, and said the kingdom of God was within, or Greek, meaning among you. [them].
Jesus as king designate was within their presence, Jesus was among those Pharisees.

Please notice Jesus does not address his disciples until verse 22 after Jesus concluded what he said to the Pharisees.

To Jesus followers he said at Luke [19 vs11-15] that the kingdom would not immediately appear. So since the kingdom's appearance would not be immediate it would not be within anyone, would it?

-Daniel 7vs13,14,18; 2v44
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you think the kingdom of God was within Jesus enemies the Pharisees ?____

According to Luke [ 17vs20,21] Jesus was addressing his enemies the Pharisees, and said the kingdom of God was within, or Greek, meaning among you. [them].
Jesus as king designate was within their presence, Jesus was among those Pharisees.

Please notice Jesus does not address his disciples until verse 22 after Jesus concluded what he said to the Pharisees.

To Jesus followers he said at Luke [19 vs11-15] that the kingdom would not immediately appear. So since the kingdom's appearance would not be immediate it would not be within anyone, would it?

-Daniel 7vs13,14,18; 2v44

I don't see how one follows the other. Most people are pretty clueless about what's inside them.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Do you think the kingdom of God was within Jesus enemies the Pharisees ?____
Sure it was. It is inside everyone. The difference is how many veils prevent us from seeing it, and how much attention we give to bringing it out in our lives.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sure it was. It is inside everyone. The difference is how many veils prevent us from seeing it, and how much attention we give to bringing it out in our lives.

Since the kingdom is likened to a 'stone' at Daniel [2 vs34,35,45], and the 'kingdom stone' becomes a 'great mountain' that fill the whole earth, how can that be inside of everyone?

How can everyone be the stone that crushes the image of verse 44 ?
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Since the kingdom is likened to a 'stone' at Daniel [2 vs34,35,45], and the 'kingdom stone' becomes a 'great mountain' that fill the whole earth, how can that be inside of everyone?

How can everyone be the stone that crushes the image of verse 44 ?

How could Jesus be a cornerstone? Stone or rock is a metaphor, in the above passage for the permanence and dependability of God's kingdom. God's kingdom, built on love, will be like a great mountain because it includes all of creation.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I don't see how one follows the other. Most people are pretty clueless about what's inside them.

TRUE!

That would make an excellent thread.




And the corner stone is a metaphor referring to the core of your thought and feeling...as a corner stone is the reference point of a foundation under construction.

The comparison has been lost over the decades as masons seem to refrain the old practice...now relying on transit and level.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
How could Jesus be a cornerstone? Stone or rock is a metaphor, in the above passage for the permanence and dependability of God's kingdom. God's kingdom, built on love, will be like a great mountain because it includes all of creation.

Yes, according to Daniel [2v44] God's kingdom includes all of creation.
What kingdom or rulership is left standing in the end according to verse 44?
Standing at the time when all badness on earth ends.

Also, for example according to Scripture, cornerstone [stone/rock] can be figurative and symbolic in usage:

Earth's cornerstone as mentioned at Job 38vs4-7.

Scripturally Jesus is a foundation cornerstone according to Isaiah 28v16

Peter also agreed in reference to Jesus being the cornerstone at 1st Peter 2vs4-7 on which Christianity is built.
Jesus being the crowning stone of the Christian congregation.
Peter also applied Psalm [118v22] to Jesus [Acts 4vs8-12] being the head of the corner.

Luke [20v17] mentions Jesus as the stone the builders rejected....

Although earth's corner stone is not literal, or Jesus is not a literal cornerstone, does not mean God's kingdom is not a literal kingdom government in the heavens.

Jesus is a literal king of God's literal kingdom.
Jesus has literal heavenly associate rulers [co-rulers] according to Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10.
For that loving kingship to work, then king, co-kings and subjects all must respect God's authority for direction and guidance and protection.
So those that rule with Jesus have two jobs to do as: kings and priests.
Kings would take care of the governmental needs of subjects.
Priests would take care of the spiritual needs of subjects.
According to Psalm 72v8; Zeph 9v10 B Jesus will have earthly subjects from one end of the earth to the other end. -Daniel 7vs13,14,18

So, the good news of God's kingdom [Matt 24v14] includes that Jesus will have literal earthly subjects starting with the living 'sheep-like' people of Matthew 25vs31,32 when we will see the end come of all badness on earth because Jesus as Prince of Peace will usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Christians are taught to pray for Gods kingdom to come in the 'Lords Prayer'
'Let your kingdom come, let your will take place on earth, as it is in heaven'

this kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray about is either a heavenly kingdom, meaning it is going to be located in heaven, or it is going to be an earthly kingdom located somewhere on earth.

Many christians believe it will be on earth (likely in Jerusalem) and that it will exist as a physical government with Jesus as its ruler (the jews believe it will be in Jerusalem with the Messiah as it ruler)

There are several ways to determine where the kingdom will be located. Firstly, Where is Jesus himself located? He was put to death and then he was resurrected and he ascended to heaven. Acts 2:33 "Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God." We could look at it that way and conclude that Jesus will rule from his heavenly position because that is the glory he has been awarded with. If he had to live on earth as a human again, it would take away his 'glorification' for him to return to human form.
Philipians 2:9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name

We can also see how the apostles viewed the kingdom...they viewed it as heavenly kingdom. 2 Timothy 4:18 "The Lord will deliver me from every wicked work and will save [me] for his heavenly kingdom..."
And Jesus himself spoke of glorifying his apostles by giving them a position in that heavenly kingdom where they will be able to witness Jesus glorification.
John 17:24"Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me"

And finally consider this, Satan the devil is said to be the ruler of the world right now....yet he doesnt have a physical office or a physical government. He is still a spirit who exists in the spirit world in 'heavenly places' and he exerts great influence on the world of mankind and does with them what he wants.
This makes it entirely plausible that Christ can also rule in such a fashion. He does not need to be here on earth physically to rule just as God did not need to set up an office in the garden of Eden in order to rule Adam and Eve. God ruled from heaven and so will Jesus.
True believers do not need his physical presence to follow him or to submit to his rulership.
I believe it refers to the advancement of God's church, in other words people continuing to be saved.
 

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
The kingdom of God has been in existence as long as God Himself. There is no reason at all to believe it will ever move to another place.

If you believe that God's Kingdom is physical, It would be reasonable to also believe it is Located in Heaven.

However there is an equal likelihood that the Kingdom is Spiritual ... In which case God and his Kingdom are one.

If God's kingdom were Earthly The world would have to exist for Ever... This is known to be impossible. As the World and the solar system have a finite life.

You are confusing, God's kingdom and the kingdom of Christ Jesus.

Daniel 2:45 "Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

That stone which was cut out of God's eternal kingdom is Christ's kingdom: 1 Corinthians 15:24-25 "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."; ---> 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

This Kingdom by Christ (which eventually is subjected back to the Father so that the stone is planted back into that mountain as one) is not the old Jerusalem here on earth, nor God's heavenly Jerusalem above as mentioned at Galatians 4:26, but it is the "New Jerusalem" as shown residing with men at Revelation 21:2-3. It's coming down from heaven signifies that this New Jerusalem is the child of the heavenly Jerusalem above. And the 144, 000 rule in that New Jerusalem right here among men because they are men.

I sympathize that this understanding blows Jehovah's Witnesses apart. For they have long taught that their dead elect ones have been going to heaven and are already actively working with Christ. But that is not how it works:
1 Thessalonians 4:15 "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Though I caution that it says not that these ones go to live in heaven, but that these ones "meet the Lord in the air so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Jehovah's Witnesses have had to recant many things they taught in the past and so it is not surprising that they need yet to recant more. And i am not saying that is bad, for they have sincerely tried just as any of us who care do sincerely try. And we all get things wrong along the way. So what is important is our humility when we come to these places where we need to grow in the accuracy of what we believe.

Jehovah's Witness are equipped to with the basic knowledge to be able to understand this if they only would get around to doing so. For it was through them that I many years ago learned what this really means, "to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." They have simply not gone the full way with their understanding as they are holding too much other mistaken ideas as a primary base for their organization and to do so would thus cause some major changes to their system of belief. I believe they have been so dogged for changing certain of their teachings in the past that they now fear to recognize what has been right under their noses for some time now.

Jehovah's Witnesses quite correctly teach that there is a devious spiritual authority of the air which rules over this present world: 2 Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."; --> Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

Clearly all that is meant by meeting the Lord in the air is that these ones who now are united forever with Christ in his godly divine ruler-ship of this earth set the new spirit of the air which operates in men of obedience. Our present governments in walking by their own will by their own intelligence carry forward the spirit of the corruption of the serpent as that spiritual air we ingested and were motivated by. This one kingdom government (which Daniel 2:44 clearly tells us, "shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever") now carries forward the uncorrupted spirit of Christ so that it becomes the new spiritual power or authority of the air.

The fact that Christ submits this kingdom back to God after all his enemies are placed under his feet does not mean this kingdom ceases to exist, for it is the earth's government right here reigning upon the earth for ever more.

No, mama heavenly Jerusalem will never lose her child, the new Jerusalem. That child exists forever but it's principal desire of heart is to bring all things back to God as one and by the power and love of Christ it will not fail.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The conflict of ideas revolves around the perspective of what a kingdom is.
No one here seems to get it.

You are part of the kingdom...in what you say...what you do.
(peace first)

You are not part of the kingdom if you speak or do otherwise.

That the kingdom is at hand speaks of proximity....it is within your reach.
(inside you)

I believe I am in the world so my insides are also.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Do you think the kingdom of God was within Jesus enemies the Pharisees ?____

According to Luke [ 17vs20,21] Jesus was addressing his enemies the Pharisees, and said the kingdom of God was within, or Greek, meaning among you. [them].
Jesus as king designate was within their presence, Jesus was among those Pharisees.

Please notice Jesus does not address his disciples until verse 22 after Jesus concluded what he said to the Pharisees.

To Jesus followers he said at Luke [19 vs11-15] that the kingdom would not immediately appear. So since the kingdom's appearance would not be immediate it would not be within anyone, would it?

-Daniel 7vs13,14,18; 2v44

I don't beleive so. I believe Jesus was speakng generically not in particular that the "you"included the Pharisees unles they were willing to enter it of course.

I believe He did not say that but gave the parable because they were thinking it.

I believe your premise is wrong so your conclusion is also.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I believe it will mean that I will have a good life.

to many, including Jesus, it meant the end of death

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of . . . the only true God.”John 17:3.

Luke 10:25-28 Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?


Salvation is about 'life'
Its about living forever without death hanging over our heads.
 

atpollard

Active Member
to many, including Jesus, it meant the end of death

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of . . . the only true God.”John 17:3.

Luke 10:25-28 Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?


Salvation is about 'life'
Its about living forever without death hanging over our heads.
I agree.
I believe that 'life' is both quantitative (I will never die) and qualitative (I am far more alive now than when I was a 'sin zombie' just shuffling through the motions of being not dead, while not really leaving any lasting impact worth remembering.)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Oneness is the name for Heaven; yet dwells inside each other us. :innocent:

The above sounds as if serial killers have heaven (oneness ) dwelling inside of them.
Psalm 92:7 says the wicked will end up being destroyed forever. The wicked will be annihilated.
Even Satan will be destroyed by Jesus according to Hebrews 2:14 B .
Did heaven (oneness ) dwell inside of Adam and Eve?_______Or was it they were only offered everlasting life forever on Earth ?______
 
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