Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

[Greatest I am]

I believe that God revealed the need for salvation and he doesn't lie. As far as judgement goes, God takes into account the seemingly millions of mitigating circumstances, good and bad, that influence our behavior.

First. Please have a look at the link and post just above.

Second. We all contribute to what we all collectively do and are in one way or another, as described when speaking of Hitler in the O.P. so your concept I agree with.

Your concept should be telling you that none are innocent, all are guilty, and all deserve the same fate.

Do you see that?

If you do, then we are either all saved or all condemned and if we all emanated from God, as believers must believe, then if God exists at all, which I do not believe, then all would return to him in heaven.

No salvation is required.

Regards
DL

 

[Jumi]

You are brighter than the average believer. Nice.

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a believer. When I was taught religion, they told me only belief matters. Not what you do, but where you end up after you're dead on that belief. I never made sense of that. If belief can save me, then I'm doomed.

 

[Greatest I am]

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a believer. When I was taught religion, they told me only belief matters. Not what you do, but where you end up after you're dead on that belief. I never made sense of that. If belief can save me, then I'm doomed.

We are both in the company of the majority.

I say that because I think most so called believers to be lying about their beliefs.

Here is a link showing one of the reasons why, ---- as well as in Finland for just one example, something like 95% of all Fins claim to be Christians yet only about 4% ever set foot into a church even once a years.

Regards
DL

 

[Jumi]

Here is a link showing one of the reasons why, ---- as well as in Finland for just one example, something like 95% of all Fins claim to be Christians yet only about 4% ever set foot into a church even once a years.

Yeah I'm a Finn and I've visited a church last time over ten years ago. Last five times I've gone to church have been to funerals and before that, a wedding.

 

[Greatest I am]

Yeah I'm a Finn and I've visited a church last time over ten years ago. Last five times I've gone to church have been to funerals and before that, a wedding.

Most of the world is following examples like yours.

So out of the what 3 billion that say they are Abrahamists, only about 4 % even go to church and who can say how many of those are so called true believers.

Nearly the whole religious world is lying.

Regards
DL

 

[Paleo]

In part? Yes.
I don't believe in dualism or the whole 'sin and burn' thing so I don't see anything I need to be saved from.

 

[Greatest I am]

In part? Yes.
I don't believe in dualism or the whole 'sin and burn' thing so I don't see anything I need to be saved from.

The intelligent view. Sweet.

Regards
DL

 

[Etritonakin]

Where to start.

Are you aware of the immorality you have to take within yourself to have your imaginary immortal life?

My bottom line on this.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

If you cannot see that, then what this Bishop says will likely right over your head.

If you do not agree with my bottom line, then please show how it is just to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Regards
DL

I have no idea how that relates to what I wrote -or, generally, what you are trying to say.

 

[Muffled]

"Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation"

I believe Christianity teaches that we are saved by grace not works.

 

[Muffled]

I don't know about salvation. It never made sense to me that we would need such and that belief was the only way to get it.

I believe everyone enjoys evil until it comes time to pay the price for it.

 

[Muffled]

Quite astute but have you noted that neither Christianity or Islam is in the reform of stupid and immoral theology business?

That would likely explain why, what is it85% of Christians believe in hell.

You say not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Christianity, like Islam is a homophobic and misogynous religion with a number of immoral tenets.

Add the lie of salvation and Jesus as savior and what is left for you to admire?

Regards
DL

I believe you are saying that if you like a sin you may simply declare it isn't one. Somehow God didn't get the memo.

 

[Jumi]

I believe everyone enjoys evil until it comes time to pay the price for it.

And you assume I'm somehow evil for not believing. Reason enough that I'm not a fan of some faiths.

 

[Greatest I am]

I have no idea how that relates to what I wrote -or, generally, what you are trying to say.

It relates to you saying we need salvation and I am showing that we do not and that if you accept the salvation Christianity offers, you are an immoral person.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

"Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation"

I believe Christianity teaches that we are saved by grace not works.

No point in being good then is there?

Funny though. God would have to recognize those he wants to save and Jesus/God said that he would knoe his people by his works and deeds.

If not by those, tell us please just how Jesus/God would recognize those he wished to save.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe everyone enjoys evil until it comes time to pay the price for it.

Thinking dualistically, if evil is enjoyable, then good would be repugnant. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe you are saying that if you like a sin you may simply declare it isn't one. Somehow God didn't get the memo.

Perhaps but that God thinks that it is ok to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Should we really listen to what such an immoral and unjust idiot has to say?

Seems God has no clue as to what sin really is as he does some of the worst of what he says is sin.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

And you assume I'm somehow evil for not believing. Reason enough that I'm not a fan of some faiths.

Perfect.

Regards
DL

 

[Etritonakin]

It relates to you saying we need salvation and I am showing that we do not and that if you accept the salvation Christianity offers, you are an immoral person.

Regards
DL

I am referring to the salvation God offers.
I am not familiar with the particular salvation to which you are referring.
After much study of the bible, I do not accept what is commonly believed about it -and about salvation.
Disregarding common beliefs and preconceived notions actually helps with study.

My point is that you cannot save yourself from death -or from imperfection.
Some might ask why God did not simply create us immortal and perfect -and the answer is that such could not be the case.
Our perfection requires our involvement -but cannot be accomplished by our selves.
Salvation is essentially the last part of the creation process.
We actually were not created to be humans -we were created to eventually be gods -the children of God.
Being human for a short time is just a step in the process.
Immortality -along with a different body capable of manipulating even cosmic events -will be given when it is certain we can accept and use such responsibly.

Technically, if your are content to live as a human and then cease to exist forever, you do not "need" salvation.
However, if you would like to live and create together happily forever with others -without conflict -you need salvation.

Do you believe accepting that is immoral?

 

[bmk2416]

Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?


Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation an obvious lies.


Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivations in it's theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven. No hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner. Not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open out inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.


How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.


For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mind set which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.


So for you and I to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions. Just not all of it.


Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?


Regards

DL

Well if there truly is no need for salvation why would we inherently feel guilt? Even sometimes when people tell us not to feel guilty and we know logically that we shouldn't?

Furthermore, if Religion caused this guilt why do atheists and those who don't believe still feel it?

If one believes the answer to be 'evolution' then you speculate and 'bow down to the king' just as much as any religious follower.

 

[sojourner]

Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation

No, Christianity does not teach that. Xy teaches that we condemned ourselves, and that God saves us through grace.

God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death.

No, God created us very good -- that's what the bible says, and that God will search for us until we are found.