Is 'the order of nature' a valid argument? - I say yes.

[Heathen Hammer]

We'll eat you first; then it won't be.
THEN WE MAKE THE ORDER, BABY!

 

[nnmartin]

What is rare and abnormal is as much part of nature as what is common and normal.

Just because something occurs in nature it does not mean it is meant to be.

Humans were not made to drink gasoline yet some do and no doubt die - the body does not have the necessary components to turn this kind of fuel into energy so attempting to do so is clearly against the Order.

This is proved by consequences.

 

[Me Myself]

Just because something occurs in nature it does not mean it is meant to be.

Humans were not made to drink gasoline yet some do and no doubt die - the body does not have the necessary components to turn this kind of fuel into energy so attempting to do so is clearly against the Order.

This is proved by consequences.

Not at all out of order. It is inside the order. Nature kills the specie if it is stupid enough.

Being killed off when stupid is part of the order. It happens in itself.

"meant to be" is in your head. Nature just does.

 

[nnmartin]

Except that the OP is merely trying to set up where they are free to pick and choose at random what is and what is not considered the "natural order".

Not so - it really is a logical way of looking at things.

The overall Order pertains to how nature would be without being interfered with by Man and his selfish desires.

It is easy to pick holes in the Order by coming up with vague analogies and out of context situations but the overall system is generally straightforward - similar to The Bible in many ways.

 

[Me Myself]

Not so - it really is a logical way of looking at things.

The overall Order pertains to how nature would be without being interfered with by Man and his selfish desires.

Man´s selfish desires? nature calls it self preservation. It´s part of us and it´s order.

Most animals aren´t what you call "compassionate". That´s mostly a human quality. (of course that is for another discussion)

 

[nnmartin]

Not at all out of order. It is inside the order. Nature kills the specie if it is stupid enough.

Being killed off when stupid is part of the order. It happens in itself.

"meant to be" is in your head. Nature just does.

Man is meant to act and function within certain parameters - incorporating nature at the same time.

The Order has created a body that cannot deal with consuming gasoline thus doing so has negative consequences.

Anther example I would like to mention is the absurd notion of a vegetarian feeding his pet dog a meat-free diet.

This is also a violation as dogs are carnivores.

An example of Man being selfish.

Selfishness leads to negative consequences.

 

[nnmartin]

Disease is part of nature, and there are a lot of homosexual creatures in nature too, so sex with reproduction is not the only sex that happens in nature.

Rams for example atre among the highest porcentage of homosexuality, farmers can tell you that.

Rams are a lower order of species than Man - their function is to provide services to Man namely in the form of meat (certainly not for other pleasures!).

They also function on the evolutionary chain for producing humans.

The sexual habits of a lower species are not especially relevant to the reproductive systems of a human.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

We are definitely eating you first, Martin

 

[nnmartin]

that is quite amusing!

 

[Me Myself]

Rams are a lower order of species than Man - their function is to provide services to Man namely in the form of meat (certainly not for other pleasures!).

They also function on the evolutionary chain for producing humans.

The sexual habits of a lower species are not especially relevant to the reproductive systems of a human.

Let me put clear what you are doing:

You are making up your own moral system that has beliefs into what the nature "wants".

This may be better suited in the philosophical section or the section about new religions or something.

All that you are saying comes from your mind, not nature.

If the sexual habits of lower species are not relevant to our habits then argument by nature doesn´t really work.

 

[nnmartin]

Of course it does because our nature and that of a sheep are different.

We are more evolved than sheep for a start and it's quite likely that sheep homosexuality is more of a trial and error operation rather than a preference. I am sure that once the ram realises he has found a ewe he stays put.

And it's not about what nature 'wants' but what nature 'intends'.

 

[Me Myself]

Of course it does because our nature and that of a sheep are different.

And that´s why we can´t really expect nature to give us natural pointers.

maybe human nature, but not nature itself.

We are more evolved than sheep for a start and it's quite likely that sheep homosexuality is more of a trial and error operation rather than a preference. I am sure that once the ram realises he has found a ewe he stays put.

You are sure? You are wrong anyways. The sheep stays homosexual for life. That´s what kind of madens the farmers actually. About being about evolution, well, humanity has homosexuality today still, and growing larger.

Grew tired of this argument though. If you understand what you are doing you are trolling, if you don´t , I don´t really know how to chew it down for you.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Nature neither 'wants' nor 'intends' anything. It has no directive consciousness.

 

[nnmartin]

I'm am not sure what point you are trying to make here with the sheep.

It really is futile comparing human sexual behaviour to that of the animal as we are way more evolved and there would be never ending analogies, claims and counter-claims of the most vague and off-topic kind if we were to go down this road.

The Order of nature has different levels - with humans being at the top.

So no real purpose in comparing our behaviour to those in the lower tiers.

 

[nnmartin]

Nature neither 'wants' nor 'intends' anything. It has no directive consciousness.

that is a matter of opinion.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

At the top of what?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

that is a matter of opinion.

Your entire premise is a matter of opinion. My opinion however describes facts

 

[nnmartin]

the top of the evolutionary pyramid.

your opinion no doubt would explain the general biological process of evolution but it falls short at the final hurdle.

You should know this during our debates about the Force in the Science section.

But let's not get into all that again - the fact is that there is no way you can prove that Evolution does not have guidance from sources currently unknown to man.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

There is no pyramid. There's no ceiling to it. We are all still evolving. Every species.

 

[Me Myself]

But let's not get into all that again - the fact is that there is no way you can prove that Evolution does not have guidance from sources currently unknown to man.

Then it´s not about nature. Its a bout a supernatural force that guides it.

This is so surprising and unexpected seeing the prior content of the posts here...