Is The Quran Superior?

[IndigoChild5559]

I think it means, you don't have to take part of the old covenant, if there is a new one.

If that is the case, then it is obsolete.

It is not logical to say that a new covenant automatically nullifies an earlier one. For example, the fact that God made a covenant with Israel does not make his covenant with Noah obsolete.

There are many covenants in the Bible. In this case I mean with old covenant the one that was done through Moses, that has the law and commandments. But, maybe it should be called Covenant of Moses, instead of old covenant.

But we are not discussing the covenant with Noah or David. We are talking about the covenant with Israel, and whether it is still in place (meaning it is not obsolete) or whether Jews no longer need to obey the commandments (meaning it is obsolete).

As I've said, the Law God gave through Moses simply augments his covenant with Israel. It's version 2.0. It is not some new covenant.

Ok, then I think we have the same idea. I just think that happens through the words of Jesus and you could already have it.

That makes absolutely no sense to me. Nothing Jesus said has resulted in it no longer being necessary to teach our children right from wrong. Nothing Jesus said has resulted in atheists no longer existing.

Remember that Jeremiah is making blanket statements. He says ALL shall know God. Not some. ALL. As long as the world has even one single atheist, Jeremiah's new covenant has not begun.

But, generally many people obeyed because they had to do so. They were forced to do so, and they didn't want to do so, but because of fear or hope of a reward did so. Such a person is not very righteous. More righteous is to obey because one understands it is good and right and loves God....
It should not be that one keeps the covenant because of an obligation, but because one understands it is good and loves God. It should be freely and willingly, not by obligation and against persons will.

I have a different outlook. It doesn't really matter that much what your kavanah is. Let's say you feed a hungry person. Do you think it matters to that person whether your heart is wrung with compassion, or whether you begrudgingly feed him due to obligation, or whether you are feeding him just to look good to others? No! He is simply grateful that you fed him! You have accomplished the same good regardless of your reasons.

I would say it makes things a lot easier if it clicks in us that loving our neighbor as ourselves is simply more fulfilling and satisfying, if we experience doing good as intrinsically rewarding. But whether we have that that orientation or not, it remains OBLIGATORY to love our neighbor as ourselves. Just because Joe resents not being able to swipe that laptop in no way makes it okay for him to do so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

While there are references in the Quran to the stories that are also mentioned in the Bible,

Sure. Because Muhammed hung out with Jews and Christians before he designed Islam. He adopted many of their stories, although he sometimes altered them.

 

[1213]

If that is the case, then it is obsolete.

It is not logical to say that a new covenant automatically nullifies an earlier one. For example, the fact that God made a covenant with Israel does not make his covenant with Noah obsolete.

Ok, and I don't think the covenant that was made through Jesus nullifies the covenant of Moses. It confirms it and makes it easier to live by it.

I would say it makes things a lot easier if it clicks in us that loving our neighbor as ourselves is simply more fulfilling and satisfying, if we experience doing good as intrinsically rewarding. But whether we have that that orientation or not, it remains OBLIGATORY to love our neighbor as ourselves.

And person who does it willingly is very different than a person who does it because he must do so. I have understood, God wants people to be those, who do it, even if there is no reward, no good feeling and even it the other person pays back the good with evil.

 

[Glaurung]

Muslims think the Quran hasn’t lost its purity from translations like the Torah and the Gospel and therefore is superior and is the infallible and uncorrupted word of God…

It has nothing to do with the existence of translations. Muslims believe that the Qur'an was dictated verbatim by Gabriel to Muhammad and that this dictation has been preserved in its Arabic original to this present day. The Bible by contrast does not make such a claim. It may claim to be divinely inspired but it is a work of human authors nonetheless.

 

[Link]

Sure. Because Muhammed hung out with Jews and Christians before he designed Islam. He adopted many of their stories, although he sometimes altered them.

Including emphasizing Moses (a) and others in the past did miracles and said in the context of people saying let him do such signs like the ancients were sent, to go ahead and "ask the family of the reminder if you do not know".

So he and his family would be indeed in a tough spot since Quran emphasized so much on miracles, and philosophy of it. Take this and contrast it to recent religions who make miracles into metaphors and unimportant, or say it's only to be shown to the sincere followers if God permits it.

If Mohammad (s) is a historical person and didn't perform miracles and is the author of the Quran, why does it emphasize so much on the philosophy of miracles?

Something to think about.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If Mohammad (s) is a historical person and didn't perform miracles and is the author of the Quran, why does it emphasize so much on the philosophy of miracles?

Same reason why Pastor Bill does no miracles, but preaches on them a lot.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ok, and I don't think the covenant that was made through Jesus nullifies the covenant of Moses. It confirms it and makes it easier to live by it.

Yet when was the last time you ever heard a Christian encourage a Jew to refrain from lobster or stay home from work on Saturday?

 

[Muffled]

Some do, but they also contain the cure, insights, and guidance necessary for mankind.

I believe there might be something beneficial in the views expressed in hadiths but there is no guarantee that any of it is from God.

 

[Link]

I believe there might be something beneficial in the views expressed in hadiths but there is no guarantee that any of it is from God.

To me there is a guarantee since Quran calls to ask the family of the reminder.

 

[Muffled]

Those believing their Faith is superior make their belief inferior by degrading Love to some dualistic, materialistic commodity

I believe that is a non-sequitur. There is no connection between superiority and the degradation of love. Actually superiority provides love whereas inferiority lacks it.

 

[Link]

Same reason why Pastor Bill does no miracles, but preaches on them a lot.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Muffled]

To me there is a guarantee since Quran calls to ask the family of the reminder.

Verse? I suspect a mistranslation or misinterpretation.

 

[Link]

Verse? I suspect a mistranslation or misinterpretation.

16:43 and 20:7, no one translates as I do from translations, but the hadiths do translate it as I do as attributed to Ahlulbayt (a).

 

[Muffled]

Yet when was the last time you ever heard a Christian encourage a Jew to refrain from lobster or stay home from work on Saturday?

It wasn't me but my Jewish friend claimed to be Baptist so more likely to listen to Jesus than Moses.

 

[Link]

You are comparing apples and oranges.

For one, the pastor is claiming medical healing miracles which can be staged and is not claiming to do reach the level of Moses' (a) type miracles. Yet Mohammad (s) was not claiming to be a lesser follower to perform lesser type healing, he was claiming to be a Messenger and emphasizing Messengers come with miracles and showed the type in the Quran.

 

[stvdv]

Isn't this a self-contradiction? You are condemning faiths that deem their faith superior thereby putting one's that do not on a higher pedestal.

I think the truth if proven by clear proofs, those who follow it cannot be equated to those who do evil and follow misguidance thinking they are guided.

That's a narcissistic, well known, kind of reply, twisting my words, obviously. I just stated a fact, twisting my words won't change this fact, it only exposes you being sneaky, not willing to give up your superiority feeling (my faith trumps others)

 

[stvdv]

I believe that is a non-sequitur. There is no connection between superiority and the degradation of love. Actually superiority provides love whereas inferiority lacks it.

Spoken by one who feels "my faith is superior"

Naturally when you feel superior you can't see the obvious. Arrogance never provides love

 

[Link]

That's a narcissistic, well known, kind of reply, twisting my words, obviously. I just stated a fact, twisting my words won't change this fact, it only exposes you being sneaky, not willing to give up your superiority feeling (my faith trumps others)

I don't see anything wrong with deeming the truth above falsehood.

 

[Muffled]

Spoken by one who feels "my faith is superior"

Naturally when you feel superior you can't see the obvious. Arrogance never provides love

I believe superiority should not lead to arrogance but to humility. After all God in His superiority came as the humble man Jesus

 

[stvdv]

I don't see anything wrong with deeming the truth above falsehood.

Twisting my words again, I never said that !

Truth has nothing to do with Religion