Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[mikkel_the_dane]

Do you know for a fact that God the Creator “murders” because He wants to?

No, it could be that he didn't create how pregnancies go? Or that he doesn't put souls into the unborn, because he knows they won't be born and thus he doesn't murder?
There is a lot of variations possible. But if He created the world and controls the non human free will parts of the pregnancies and He places souls in the unborns at the moment the sperm meets the egg, then yes, He murders the unborns, unless you can show that they are evil and sinners.

 

[InChrist]

Sorry, but that is a special pleading fallacy. And you would need to prove that humans were "created" for your argument to even begin to have any validity.

Well, you know I can’t prove God created humans to you a materialist who denies the existence of a supernatural spiritual realm or Spiritual Being as Creator. But I’m in no hurry to win an argument. I am sure God will prove His existence to you one way or another.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, you know I can’t prove God created humans to you a materialist who denies the existence of a supernatural spiritual realm or Spiritual Being as Creator. But I’m in no hurry to win an argument. I am sure God will prove His existence to you one way or another.

Well, I am not a materialist, I accept you can believe in God, but you still have to use some sort of reasoning, as that what you are doing.
So if you want to make an argument, we hold you to that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, you know I can’t prove God created humans to you a materialist who denies the existence of a supernatural spiritual realm or Spiritual Being as Creator. But I’m in no hurry to win an argument. I am sure God will prove His existence to you one way or another.

Well, He's had oodles more than ample time to do so -- and so far seems to have chosen not to bother. Kind of hard to explain, really.

It's like, if you have kids, will you only let them know directly that you are their father once they're dead -- but they'd better have done everything correctly, according to the people who tell those kids what it is you want (because you didn't want to tell them yourself)?"

I dunno, but I really find this sort of odd...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, you know I can’t prove God created humans to you a materialist who denies the existence of a supernatural spiritual realm or Spiritual Being as Creator. But I’m in no hurry to win an argument. I am sure God will prove His existence to you one way or another.

Please try to be accurate. No one "denies" the supernatural. We just note that there is no rational reason to believe in it. And if you cannot support your views you really nave no business telling people what they can and cannot do. Would you like someone else's religious beliefs forced upon you? If you had a favorite food that was banned for no good reason would you resent it? That is a very minor loss for you compared to what a pregnancy does to a woman.

 

[InChrist]

And yet the second bold is morality and you want to legislate based on that, right?

Well, there are some laws in this country and just about every country against murdering another, for the protection of life. Why should the lives of pre-born infants be excluded.?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, there are some laws in this country and just about every country against murdering another, for the protection of life. Why should the lives of pre-born infants be excluded.?

That is a moral question in part.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, there are some laws in this country and just about every country against murdering another, for the protection of life. Why should the lives of pre-born infants be excluded.?

Because they do not appear to qualify as "persons". Even the Bible appears to agree on that.

 

[InChrist]

Please try to be accurate. No one "denies" the supernatural. We just note that there is no rational reason to believe in it. And if you cannot support your views you really nave no business telling people what they can and cannot do. Would you like someone else's religious beliefs forced upon you? If you had a favorite food that was banned for no good reason would you resent it? That is a very minor loss for you compared to what a pregnancy does to a woman.

For one thing, I don’t tell people what they can and cannot do. I can tell someone I think murdering their neighbor is wrong, but can I stop someone from doing so? No. We have laws against murder in this country. I didn’t come up with those. Do you want laws against murder rescinded?

And what does pregnancy do to a woman, from your view?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Because they do not appear to qualify as "persons". Even the Bible appears to agree on that.

I seem to recall one of the early Christian theologians make the argument that the unborn goes from like a plant, to like an animal to a person.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

For one thing, I don’t tell people what they can and cannot do. I can tell someone I think murdering their neighbor is wrong, but can I stop someone from doing so? No. We have laws against murder in this country. I didn’t come up with those. Do you want laws against murder rescinded?

And what does pregnancy do to a woman, from your views?

Well, if as per one of the early Christian theologians in the early state the unborn is like a plant would it then be murder?

 

[InChrist]

That is a moral question in part.

Are laws against murder, child abuse, or theft legislating morality, in your perspective?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are laws against murder, child abuse, or theft legislating morality, in your perspective?

Yes.

 

[InChrist]

Well, if as per one of the early Christian theologians in the early state the unborn is like a plant would it then be murder?

And which early Christian theologian was that? Doesn’t sound like reliable information to me.

 

[InChrist]

Yes.

Should they be rescinded?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And which early Christian theologian was that? Doesn’t sound like reliable information to me.

Abortion and Catholic thought. The little-known history - PubMed

I have come across that before.

 

[InChrist]

Because they do not appear to qualify as "persons". Even the Bible appears to agree on that.

If pre-born infants are not persons what are they? The Bible indicates they are, from what I see in the scriptures.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Should they be rescinded?

Don't understand your question?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If pre-born infants are not persons what are they? The Bible indicates they are, from what I see in the scriptures.

yeah, that is your interpretation. There are other ones.

 

[InChrist]

Abortion and Catholic thought. The little-known history - PubMed

I have come across that before.

Thank you, that was very interesting. I don’t give any credence to the Catholic Church or Thomas Aquinas, though. Just another bit of information to substantiate my departure from Catholicism years ago was the right decision.