Is the Right Wing in America Bankrupt for Practical Ideas?

[Panda]

It is never acceptable to be a racist. The country that I live in provides Liberty and Justice for all.

Well it seems to try to, sometimes anyway, if it suits the people in charge.

 

[Revoltingest]

But I don't think of all conservatives as bad, poor minded, etc. as long as they don't rub it on me.

You say not "all", but you still ascribe racism to the group.

Racism does not fit under liberalism though, being that it is all for equal rights.

Your posted definition of "liberal" is rather 18th century in a political context.
Modern "liberals" are much less about liberty than classical liberals.

Let me rephrase myself: If you're racist you're a conservative. It's kind of like Catholics and Christians... Not all Christians are Catholic, but all catholics are Christian
So in the same way, not all conservatives are racist, but all racists are conservative..

I've known too many counter examples. This disproves your claim.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You are setting up a situation to make it impossible for any self described liberal, progressive or Democrat to be racist. If someone is racist than they must actually be conservative. That's precisely what you are saying in your last sentence.

The notion is laughably absurd. There is no cognitive dissonance in believing that the individuals should have equal rights in regards to the government but that different races are unequal. In fact, entire movements we associate with progressive ideals are rife with bigoted or outright irrational thinking. The civil's rights movement had some sexists. The women's rights movement was filled with some racists. The Democratic Party had as it's senior party member a racist former Klansmen.

The Democratic Party does not equal civil rights. Progressivism does not exclude bigots. Whoever taught you this taught you wrong. Union groups across America are full of regular people which means they are going to have their own share of people who are bigoted in their views but will uphold their specific ideal as represented by their union and set aside that bigoted view.

Even inserting this concept of racism falls along conservative lines because conservatives adhere to tradition is a both an equivocation and a strawman. It has nothing to do with the OP.

Which, to answer the OP, I would say yes. The Right Wing I do believe is intellectually bankrupt. When someone creates the inevitable opposing thread I will give the same response.

It seems to me you think Democracy is always liberal, which is not at all true.

Yes a liberal supports equal rights would you like cites? Give me a confident number of cites that you'd like and I'll provide them.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems to me you think Democracy is always liberal, which is not at all true.
Yes a liberal supports equal rights would you like cites? Give me a confident number of cites that you'd like and I'll provide them.

Liberals (in the modern political sense) say they support equal rights. But they redefine "equal rights" to include
disparate treatment for different groups, eg, race, gender, religion. I'd say this smacks of bigotry & loss of liberty.

 

[gnomon]

It seems to me you think Democracy is always liberal, which is not at all true.

Yes a liberal supports equal rights would you like cites? Give me a confident number of cites that you'd like and I'll provide them.

No where in my statement have I even addressed the concept of democracy.

Throw out all the sources you want. You are not understanding what people are trying to tell you anyway. Just another RF member generalizing away and somehow not even aware of it.

edit: But while you are doing that please make some attempt to tie your insight into the OP. This derail has gone on long enough. Remember, it's about whether or not the political right have any practical ideas.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You say not "all", but you still ascribe racism to the group.

Just because I ascribe this to that doesn't mean it's directed toward the whole that.

I admit conservative can fall under democrat and still support democracy, just not the conservative democracy.

Your posted definition of "liberal" is rather 18th century in a political context. Modern "liberals" are much less about liberty than classical liberals.

I have joined quite a few liberal groups that would disagree with that - always posting pictures about rights.

It seems to be a main concept of liberalism to support equal rights, careless about them over other things or not.

I've known too many counter examples. This disproves your claim.

What claim does it disprove?

 

[Reverend Rick]

How do I saying some conservatives (very little nowadays) support racism equate to me saying they're dumber, meaner, etc?

I'm simply saying racism would fall under the conservative lines in liberal vs conservative graphs. Example: Democrats once supported racism, and at that time they were considered conservative.

I think racism for the most part has been driven underground and lives in the hearts of Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans.

No mainstream group tolerates racism today. What is hidden in people's minds and hearts is sad.

Trust me, hate is still everywhere but thankfully has became much smaller.

Hate has jumped from party to party. Remember, Lincoln was a Republican.

In the south, democrats belonged to the KKK back in the day.

In modern times, Republicans who are mostly conservative have embraced gay business groups at some conventions.

Republicans have certainly embraced people of color. Only a blind person would have missed that one.

American Conservatism wants smaller government, less waste, less taxes and regulations. We believe in self reliance and less government dependance.

We embrace people of every color and sexual preference because deep down we know, if we don't become more inclusive, our platform will be gone one day.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The notion is laughably absurd. There is no cognitive dissonance in believing that the individuals should have equal rights in regards to the government but that different races are unequal. In fact, entire movements we associate with progressive ideals are rife with bigoted or outright irrational thinking. The civil's rights movement had some sexists. The women's rights movement was filled with some racists. The Democratic Party had as it's senior party member a racist former Klansmen.

The Democratic Party does not equal civil rights. Progressivism does not exclude bigots. Whoever taught you this taught you wrong. Union groups across America are full of regular people which means they are going to have their own share of people who are bigoted in their views but will uphold their specific ideal as represented by their union and set aside that bigoted view.

Even inserting this concept of racism falls along conservative lines because conservatives adhere to tradition is a both an equivocation and a strawman. It has nothing to do with the OP.

Which, to answer the OP, I would say yes. The Right Wing I do believe is intellectually bankrupt. When someone creates the inevitable opposing thread I will give the same response.

No where in my statement have I even addressed the concept of democracy.

Yeah, of course you didn't.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Liberals (in the modern political sense) say they support equal rights. But they redefine "equal rights" to include
disparate treatment for different groups, eg, race, gender, religion. I'd say this smacks of bigotry & loss of liberty.

Give me sources that prove liberals do this.

 

[Sunstone]

Give me sources that prove liberals do this.

Rush Limbaugh has often said so. Isn't that good enough?

 

[Revoltingest]

Give me sources that prove liberals do this.

No sources needed. "Affirmative action" & variants of it are known to all. Those who are denied jobs or education because of race or
gender have lost some liberty. The military draft is often touted by liberals as a way to mix socio-economic groups for the greater good.
This is a loss of liberty for those who would be forced against their will to serve militarily.

 

[gnomon]

Yeah, of course you didn't.

The Democratic Party - a U.S. political party. Longest running party in the U.S. and one of the oldest in the world. Comprised largely of center-left political ideologies which includes liberalism, progressivism, conservatism and civil libertarianism. Some highlights are support of government, centrally, controlled social welfare programs, affordable health care and equal rights of opportunity. Usually noted by a closer view to a strong central government.

Democracy - a form of government in which all people have an equal say in the political process usually involving a direct form of participation.

Now please tell me again where I referenced democracy. I specifically stated Democratic Party.

edit: And this is still off from the OP. I would like to know why you think injecting this line of conversation in the first place has any relevance to the OP.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think racism for the most part has been driven underground and lives in the hearts of Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans.

No mainstream group tolerates racism today. What is hidden in people's minds and hearts is sad.

So there are no racists today? KKK does not exist?

Trust me, hate is still everywhere but thankfully has became much smaller

Smaller or not, it still exists.

Hate has jumped from party to party. Remember, Lincoln was a Republican.

And Republican automatically means conservative? If you say it does I'm done here...

In the south, democrats belonged to the KKK back in the day.

And Democrats automatically mean liberal?

In modern times, Republicans who are mostly conservative have embraced gay business groups at some conventions.

Some maybe, Liberals have been working out the most for it.

Republicans have certainly embraced people of color. Only a blind person would have missed that one.

So? This proves nothing against me.

American Conservatism wants smaller government, less waste, less taxes and regulations. We believe in self reliance and less government dependance.

And I don't disagree. But liberals want equality so racist groups would not fit in liberalism, thus would fall under conservativism.

We embrace people of every color and sexual preference because deep down we know, if we don't become more inclusive, our platform will be gone one day.

You can speak for yourself, you can speak for a majority of conservatives, but you cannot speak for all.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

AP: Ku Klux Klan Members Are 'Certainly Conservative' | NewsBusters.org

Just in case you're interested...

 

[The Sum of Awe]

No sources needed. "Affirmative action" & variants of it are known to all.

I'm a part of tons of liberal groups and I see no affirmative action or variants that indicate this...

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm a part of tons of liberal groups and I see no affirmative action or variants that indicate this...

It's still there. Universities use race norming of test scores of minorities to raise them relative to others, & thus give them preferential treatment.
Necessarily, this causes worse treatment for the others. Ford might not be "liberal", but the policy was imposed by liberals in government.

Note: When my father was a manager at Ford, he was under orders for a while to hire no white males. When I went to UofM & applied for a
reactor operator job at the Phoenix Memorial Reactor, the supervisor told me that he could only hire females & blacks. (Too many whites &
Asians in the field already.) And UofM is a very left leaning place indeed.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It's still there. Universities use race norming of test scores of minorities to raise them relative to others, & thus give them preferential treatment.
Necessarily, this causes worse treatment for the others. Ford might not be "liberal", but the policy was imposed by liberals in government.

Note: When my father was a manager at Ford, he was under orders for a while to hire no white males. When I went to UofM & applied for a
reactor operator job at the Phoenix Memorial Reactor, the supervisor told me that he could only hire females & blacks. (Too many whites &
Asians in the field already.) And UofM is a very left leaning place indeed.

1) Not sure if you mean the American government which is definitely not totally liberal yet, if you are speaking of liberals within the government, not just the government as whole, ignore this.

2) Sources?

3) If it is actual liberals then wikipedia lied.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Give me sources that prove liberals do this.

Archived-Articles: Liberal Racism

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Archived-Articles: Liberal Racism

And why does he hold that opinion? I see no conduction to his reasoning. It's just an opinion as well.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is the Right Wing in America Bankrupt for Practical Ideas ?