is the u.s. a fascist state?

[almifkhar]

has the united states turned itself into a fascist state? if so, how can we turn things around? here is a site that should be read and put some thought into what is being said.
www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No. It is not.

 

[Ardent Listener]

has the united states turned itself into a fascist state? if so, how can we turn things around? here is a site that should be read and put some thought into what is being said.
www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

No, it is not there yet. But it appears to be in danger of turning into a fascist state by both the extreame right and left.

 

[Scuba Pete]

As intolerance escalates about this war, I see it coming.

We must resist the religious right at almost all costs.

 

[Aqualung]

We also must resist the unreligious left. Both sides, as ardent listener pointed out, are trying to do it.

 

[spacemonkey]

Do you have any thing to back up the claim that the LEFT is would try to make a facist state? I belive they would lean more toward a socalist state.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We also must resist the unreligious left. Both sides, as ardent listener pointed out, are trying to do it.

What precisely is the "unreligious left" doing that you deem fascistic?

 

[michel]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facism

More generally, uncapitalized, fascism is typified by attempts to impose state control over important aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to nationalizes) the means of production. Capitalism is diminshed, but not eliminated. Those accused of usury, war profiteering, or other capitalist excesses are viciously persecuted.
There are elements of both left and right ideology in the development of Fascism, but it generally attracts political support from far-right, populist and revolutionary reactionary electorate. More contemporary examples are discussed on the page Neo-fascism. For a discussion of different ideological debates concerning fascism, see Fascism and ideology.
<-------------------------------------------snip---------------------------------------------------->

"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere. ... The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporate, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation.

From the above definition, I would say that The USA is most certainly not a fascist state.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Both the German and Spanish versions of Fascist states were National Socialism.
This has nothing to do with Socialism, which they both fought against.
The Germans saw the Capitalists as being controlled by the Jews.
They wanted Capital to work for the good of the state, so industry and employment was controlled by direction of the state apparatus.
This scenario does not fit with the American system.
Though the reverse of this could work in the USA, where Business and finance would control the Government.
You could say money men already controls the voting system.

Terry_________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[Darkdale]

Do you have any thing to back up the claim that the LEFT is would try to make a facist state? I belive they would lean more toward a socalist state.

Well, really, that's the difference between Democratic Socialism & National Socialism. The far left leans toward Democratic Socialism (and some are out right communists, in my opinion), while the Fringe Christian Right leans toward National Socialism (which is what Hitler developed, though decidedly less Christian).

Yet, a majority of Americans are moderate Democratic Federalists, with a growth in libertarian ideals within conservative circles. So now, the extremists, being the most motivated, are getting all the power and attention, while the media exploits the controversy and the American Public watches with a kind of helpless astonishment.

 

[Scuba Pete]

We also must resist the unreligious left.

As a member of the religious left, you had best watch out for us. We are pissed and we are not taking any more crap from bigots or war mongers who pervert the word of God to garner more power in this country.

 

[mr.guy]

while the Fringe Christian Right leans toward National Socialism

DD, what do you mean by National Socialism? I thought it largely refered to Nazism. Perhaps you just meant Nationalism?

with a growth in libertarian ideals within conservative circles

I'm curious, what libertarian ideas have penetrated into the conservative mind?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

[size=-1]True
National Socilism = Nazism

Read below
But it was also embraced by Italy and Spain so it was not limited to Germany

It was also found in England and America and France and other countries, but did not flourish in the same way.

www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/search/search.php?searchtext=hitler&refinetext=&search_page=3&am...
Click on the national socialist link.

Terry________________________
[/size] Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[Green Gaia]

As a member of the religious left, you had best watch out for us. We are pissed and we are not taking any more crap from bigots or war mongers who pervert the word of God to garner more power in this country.

:jam:

 

[Quiddity]

As intolerance escalates about this war, I see it coming.

We must resist the religious right at almost all costs.

You can see it in this forum..

Not there yet though.

~Victor

 

[Darkdale]

DD, what do you mean by National Socialism? I thought it largely refered to Nazism. Perhaps you just meant Nationalism?

I'm curious, what libertarian ideas have penetrated into the conservative mind?

1. No, I meant National Socialism. It is very dangerous how the Republican Elect are using government to further their Religious and Cultural agenda... something conservatism should be utterly against. President Bush isn't there yet, but sometimes I honestly think that he believes Christian Government to be the solution. Now, this country would never stand for a theocracy, but George W. Bush, like his father, believes very much in a Large Federal Government as a tool for a cultural and economic agenda. That is not what conservatism should be and a lot of Fiscal or Political conservatives feel abandoned by the president. We are the intellectual conservative base and all he has give us are Tax Cuts. BUT conservatives believe that along with Tax Cuts, come Spending Cuts. President Bush has done anything BUT cut spending. He's increased it and not just on the war. Education, Healthcare & the War on Drugs have all increased under Bush's watch and not a one of them is better of today than when he took office. So non-Christian or at least, those conservatives without a religious or social agenda feel betrayed.

2. Libertarian ideals became very popular amongst the intellectual conservative base under President Reagan (we even found conservative democrats, known as Reagan Democrats that agreed with that philosophy; one that was actually held by JFK). While these ideals haven't necessarily carried over enough into the Republican's cultural perspective, it has greatly effected their political philosophy.

3. Netdoc - Just out of curiosity, are you advocating civil war? Stopping conservatives at any cost? That's a curious topic I'd love to possibly discuss in another thread.

 

[Fluffy]

No it isn't.

Please don't mistake what I am about to say as defending the perfection of the left, since it really isn't, however, it is a total fallacy to suggest that the extreme left leads to facism.

The left generally refers to a system of politics where the government is removed from social policy (mostly) and heavily involved economically. In this sense it is interchangeable with the term liberal.

Facism refers to a government that is heavily involved socially (the exact opposite of the left in this area and the same as conservatism although generally more extreme) and a centrist or right leaning economy. Occasionally you get left wing economic facists such as the BNP. However, they are not the left because they still believe in nanny state ideology.

In other words, whilst the left can be similar to facism in terms of economic policy (although this is rare even then), the two political positions are always polar opposities when it comes to social laws.

A lot of the confusion in this area comes from the input of the Nazi's. Whilst they are undeniably facist, much misinformation was spread, both by Hitler and education authorities during the cold war, that they were in fact extreme leftists. Anyone who has studied the Nazi's political rallys will know that their policies changed from one polar opposite to the other depending on who they were talking to so that they could gain the support of the communists and the facists as well as the centrists. Their party name reflects such a tactic, National appealing to the right whilst Socialist appeals to the left. However, most historians and political scientists have come to the conclusion that the socialist policies were largely abandoned by the Nazi's upon attaining power leaving them marginally right of the centre in terms of economic policy.

However, if Ardent Listener or Aqualung wish to say how they feel the extreme left can lead to facism then I would be happy to argue the point.

 

[Quiddity]

Isn't Nazism a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism? But not fascism alone. Most goverments have elements of several structures with one dominant structure. Fascism can come from either side of the political spectrum.

~Victor

 

[Fluffy]

Isn't Nazism a political party platform that embraces a combination of a military dictatorship, socialism and fascism? But not fascism alone. Most goverments have elements of several structures with one dominant structure. Fascism can come from either side of the political spectrum.

In short? No. I have not seen a scrap of evidence for socialist change under Nazism and believe me, I have looked. Military dictatorship is a factor of fascism and is not seperate from it. Fascism cannot be found with liberal social policy. They are polar opposities.

Additionally, the political spectrum is inaccurate. Using it puts Stalin on top of the Green Party and Labour on top of Hitler. A political compass is far more accurate and useful. The spectrum is outdated and leads to much of the confusion evidenced in this thread.

 

[standing_alone]

As much as I'm a cynic and despise the Bush administration and would get great pleasure out of calling the USA facist, I don't believe we are a facist state (yet). There's been some scary moves during the Bush administration and some nationalist tendencies mislabled as patriotism, I still think we enjoy many freedoms that we wouldn't have in a facist state. I think it's a little drastic and an exaggeration (sp?) to lable the U.S. as such. Doesn't mean I'm happy with where we're at, I'm far from it (I'm very far left), but instead of calling the U.S. facist, we should be out there trying to prevent this sort of thing from happening, preferably through the democratic process (i.e. voting out politicians that seem to encourage ideas we may see as facist). I think I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.