firedragon
Veteran Member
Are you sure its flat?
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Is the universe infinite or finite?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
Are you sure its flat?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
No. But locally it appears to be very close.
gnostic
The Lost One
Ah, no.
The mass-energy equivalence equation was formulated way back in 1905, when Special Relativity was first proposed, decades before any rockets were launched into space.
Decades before they thought of space travel. The equation was never (originally) intended to be used for “space ship”, but it does have applications in that area.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You said it appears to be very close. How do you observe it?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I see no reason to think there are any "god given" rights. People are free believe what they like about reality, based on their subjective 'perception' but, if they can't justify their beliefs, then others don't have to take them seriously.
It does?
I've yet to see any reason to think that religion deals with reality at all.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I meant "Howe do you know the universe is flat"? You made a very sure shot statement "since the universe is flat" which means you are sure about it. Then you spoke of it appearing so.
Thats the reason for this question. How do you obverse it?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
firedragon
Veteran Member
That shows you have a premise that the universe is flat. And you said it appears so. Thus, how do you observe it?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Again: How do we know the universe is flat?
The evidence we have is that the universe (at least the observable universe) is close to being flat. This isn't something that's difficult to check or to find out about the evidence. There's a wonderful thing called "the internet" that allows people to find out all sorts of things, if they're interested and look at reputable sites, perhaps you've heard of it?
Have you actually got a point to make here?
firedragon
Veteran Member
No. No point to make. I dont think that all questions are always with an agenda behind it. Maybe you are used to it but not all.
You never answered the questions I asked directly.
1. Are you sure the universe is flat?
2. Since you said "it appears so", how do you observe it?
I think you will never answer them because already too many posts have gone by with you avoiding direct answers. No worries.
Can you tell me how the spacial flatness of the universe would be affected if omega was a little less than 1? Just a tad. What do you think?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
There really is no point in engaging with you if you can't even keep track of / tell the truth about (whichever applies) what I've said. I answered a direct 'no' to the first question (#363) and gave a link for the second.
firedragon
Veteran Member
No worries. Have a good day.
gnostic
The Lost One
@firedragon
If you want to explore the flatness of the universe, then you should a couple of links (threads) of @Meow Mix -
Understanding Cosmology (Post 2)
Understanding Cosmology (Post 3)
Both threads explore the possible geometry of the universe, with Post 2 thread centered around the Friedmann’s equation, while Post 3 thread, she starts on Dark Matter.
If you want to explore the flatness of the universe, then you should a couple of links (threads) of @Meow Mix -
Understanding Cosmology (Post 2)
Understanding Cosmology (Post 3)
Both threads explore the possible geometry of the universe, with Post 2 thread centered around the Friedmann’s equation, while Post 3 thread, she starts on Dark Matter.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Beliefs are like prisons, the believer can not think outside the circle, it applies to both religion and science. Understanding otoh is liberating, if you understand, then whether its religious or scientific, your mind can move on. However for the mind to be fully liberated, it must not just have understanding, it must also understand not understanding, for without that, one may mistake conditioned belief for understanding. Conditioned belief comes from learning by rote, like school learning, memorizing, whether it be science or religion.
Yes, dualism can never result in true understanding because the objective universe is the tip of an iceberg. like being only 5% of the universe. That is why you can not understand what is being said to you about the universal now, the universal now is the 100%. In correct religious practice, the other inner 95% begins to be realized in a subjective manner. Just so you understand, realization happens at the expense of the personal self, a fully realized soul would be pretty much selfless, think JC or Siddartha.
So science deals with the objective 5% of reality, and religion is meant to complement the 5% with another 95% to make 100% of reality.
So I wonder what rational experiences has to say about the error of the scientific atheism?
.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
gnostic, just a point, does the Hubble radius cause a limitation to determining the extent of the universe and hence its size and shape?
firedragon
Veteran Member
I was not asking to explore. But thanks nevertheless
I wanted a third option of 'Yes'...lol
I'd say the universe is beyond comprehension. We throw numbers around as if they convey meaning...so sure, the cosmos has a 47-billion light-year observable radius, but it is likely several orders of magnitude larger...Like we really comprehend the distance that a light-year represents, and the difference of 10 orders of magnitude...yeah, we comprehend that...
I regularly get dumb stares when I suggest to my kids the internet isn't infinite, let alone the universe...