Is there a Creator?

[K.Venugopal]

Is there a God who created our so-called creation? I would tend to say “no” for the following reasons:

1. It is a trick to call existence “creation” and thereby posit that there has to be creator.

2. What exists is better called existence.

3. The question of who created existence does not arise because there was never a time when existence was not.

4. To say there is no “creator” is not to say there is no God because that would depend on what we mean by God.

I request members to please comment on my statements as I am seeking a definitive answer as to whether there is a Creator.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

We are the creator, which manifests in every form. The illusion of time creates the illusion of separation. Renounce time, and we can return to oneness, if only to realize this fact in a more conscious way.

 

[Jeremiah]

Is there a God who created our so-called creation? I would tend to say “no” for the following reasons:

1. It is a trick to call existence “creation” and thereby posit that there has to be creator.

2. What exists is better called existence.

3. The question of who created existence does not arise because there was never a time when existence was not.

4. To say there is no “creator” is not to say there is no God because that would depend on what we mean by God.

I request members to please comment on my statements as I am seeking a definitive answer as to whether there is a Creator.

Yes, the idea that existance was created is just a random guess, a shot in the dark, but so is the idea it was not created. We just don't have enough data, at this time, to speculate about the origins, or lack of, of existance.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Yes, the idea that existance was created is just a random guess, a shot in the dark, but so is the idea it was not created. We just don't have enough data, at this time, to speculate about the origins, or lack of, of existance.

You assume that we need data to confirm the existence of who or that which creates, yet the data-collector and the data collected must be an intrinsic part of the creation itself. If you want time to find truth, you will get time...a lot of it. You would be searching for an infinite amount of time for this "data". It is impossible to hold an absolute perspective on the creation or the created. BEING the creator or the created though, yes.

 

[K.Venugopal]

We are the creator, which manifests in every form. The illusion of time creates the illusion of separation. Renounce time, and we can return to oneness, if only to realize this fact in a more conscious way.

I think what you said is superb. I need to meditate on renouncing time to understand its full significance. I'll get back to you.

 

[TheKnight]

God is existence. For He is the only essential existence. Wherever existence has been there He has been also. For existence is His name. Essence is His title. He is all that is and will be. He is the essence of existence. His presence is most obvious in non-existence.

 

[freethinker44]

We are the creator, which manifests in every form. The illusion of time creates the illusion of separation. Renounce time, and we can return to oneness, if only to realize this fact in a more conscious way.

While poetic and beautifull in its own way, one thing time is not, is an illusion. A close look at relativity theory and one can plainly see that time is not a concept or illusion conceptualized by human minds. It is a permanent and inseperable piece of space. Observed and proven as a physical entity and not a mere mirage of the human mind. For almost a hundred years the concept of time has stopped being a concept and became an integral part of our understanding of the universe. Time, like space and the rest of our universe, is oblivious to the human condition, and should not be considered in any poetic way.

 

[Willamena]

Is there a God who created our so-called creation? I would tend to say “no” for the following reasons:

1. It is a trick to call existence “creation” and thereby posit that there has to be creator.

Then what made existence?

2. What exists is better called existence.

Some have proposed that as a name for "Creator". But then how does existence exist?

3. The question of who created existence does not arise because there was never a time when existence was not.

If that's so, then why is there a time now when things are not? When did that begin?

4. To say there is no “creator” is not to say there is no God because that would depend on what we mean by God.

Indeed. What do you mean by "God"?

I request members to please comment on my statements as I am seeking a definitive answer as to whether there is a Creator.

KK. Good luck.

 

[Nothing]

K. Venugopal,

I hate to dissapoint you but I highly doubt there is a living soul on earth, much less in this forum who can give a definitive answer on wether or not there is a Creator. One would have to know completely what the Creator is (which I belive no mortal has the capacity to do) to give a definitive answer.
You make some good points,

2.What exists is better called existence
3. ....there was never a time when existence was not

In the Bible God declares "I am the Alpha and the Omega" (beginning and end). You can also find God described as without beginning or end, meaning eternal.
Going to your reason 3, I believe you have discovered an Absolute truth (though it does not confirm or deny the existence of God)
Consider it this way if you will: Everything that exists, exists only NOW! Past and future do not exist.
This makes your third reason ".... there was never a time when existence was not" definitive.
Good job, and thank you for your Wisdom!

Nothing

 

[OGMIOS6666]

O men! If you have any doubt concerning Resurrection, then know that it is surely We Who created you from dust, then from a drop of sperm, then from a clot of blood, then from a little lump of flesh, some of its shapely and other shapelessly. (We are rehearsing this) that We may make the reality clear to you. We cause (the drop of sperm) that We please to remain in the wombs till an appointed time. We bring you forth as infants (and nurture you) that you may come of age. Among you is he that dies (at a young age) and he who is kept back to the most abject age so that after once having known, he reaches a stage when he knows nothing. You see that the earth has become dry and barren and then no sooner than We send down water upon it, it begins to quiver and swell and brings forth every kind of beauteous vegetation.

 

[Jeremiah]

You assume that we need data to confirm the existence of who or that which creates, yet the data-collector and the data collected must be an intrinsic part of the creation itself. If you want time to find truth, you will get time...a lot of it. You would be searching for an infinite amount of time for this "data". It is impossible to hold an absolute perspective on the creation or the created. BEING the creator or the created though, yes.

"You assume that we need data to confirm the existence of"

It is not an assumption but more of a system of approach.

Also, I have never seen anything, ever, created in the sense of something from nothing. I have seen what is already there take on a different form but I have never seen something come from nothing. The idea of an origin for existance is a wild guess; for all we know the existance, we know, could be forever.


"If you want time to find truth,"

Sorry you got the wrong person; I am content with existing, I don't need to know how. It's an overrated topic at any rate.

 

[jam.bar]

. His presence is most obvious in non-existence.

This confused me. How is Gods presence most obvious in non-existense? For his presence to be felt, something has to feel it right. So if nothing exists, how can his presence be felt?

 

[OGMIOS6666]

Open your eyes and gaze upto the skies, look at the marvel of the creation, the subtle ways in which all forms have been created without any flaws, ask someone if they can create a fly?

 

[jam.bar]

ask someone if they can create a fly?

Can you create a fly?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is there a God who created our so-called creation? I would tend to say “no” for the following reasons: ...

2. What exists is better called existence.
3.The question of who created existence does not arise because there was never a time when existence was not. ...

I request members to please comment on my statements ...

Thoughtless and barren wordplay ...

 

[cottage]

Is there a God who created our so-called creation? I would tend to say “no” for the following reasons:

1. It is a trick to call existence “creation” and thereby posit that there has to be creator.

2. What exists is better called existence.

3. The question of who created existence does not arise because there was never a time when existence was not.

4. To say there is no “creator” is not to say there is no God because that would depend on what we mean by God.

I request members to please comment on my statements as I am seeking a definitive answer as to whether there is a Creator.

I believe you are spot on with point 1 (creation implies a creator). Point 2 invites no criticism, since that is simply what it is. Point 3 is speculation. And in the case of Point 4 even if we affirm that there is a Creator god we still need to describe what is meant by the term.

Regards, Cottage

 

[K.Venugopal]

Thoughtless and barren wordplay ...

Maybe not. If we believe that there is a creator then we end up being His slave, as advised by most scriptures "written" by such Gods. But if we realize that we were not created but are part of eternal existence, we would seek to discover our potential and thereby discover divinity.

 

[OGMIOS6666]

And Pharaoh said: O chiefs! I know not that ye have a god other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake the mud; and set up for me a lofty tower in order that I may survey the God of Moses; and lo! I deem him of the liars. And he and his hosts were haughty in the land without right, and deemed that they would never be brought back to Us. Therefor We seized him and his hosts, and abandoned them unto the sea. Behold the nature of the consequence for evil-doers! [SIZE=-1]

"We seized him and his hosts, and abandoned them unto the sea."
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
"We made them (evil-doers) patterns that invite unto the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped."
The Fire [/SIZE] And We made them patterns that invite unto the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped. And We made a curse to follow them in this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be among the hateful. And We verily gave the Scripture unto Moses after We had destroyed the generations of old: clear testimonies for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy, that haply they might reflect.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Maybe not. If we believe that there is a creator then we end up being His slave, ...

Absolute rubbish.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I don't believe there is a creator God. Everything that exists is just energy in different forms which can neither be created, nor destroyed. However if one defines God as being this energy or this animating principal of existence, then in that case God exists, but God is still not a creator. God is more like the "animator".