Is there a Creator?

[K.Venugopal]

Time does not exist.
There's a thread around here, somewhere,that addresses this topic.

So long as our minds are in duality mode, we would need to measure and time is one such measurement. But when we transcend duality and reach the state of non-duality, all measurements become redundant.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Since there is no way to rule out a creator it is simply ignorant to suggest otherwise. As a strong atheist myself my personal bias thinks its rediculous to think that a man in a white beard created things, i won'tt rule it out.

Of course, it would be dogmatic to rule anything out. But I think we can still come to conclusions on probabilities. And often probabilities seem certainties.

However, out of what was everything created if it was created, and who created the creator?

Good questions.

 

[K.Venugopal]

...I think given the lack of examinable evidence, the obvious human traits attached to this creator, that this god thing is indeed man made, and it's perfectly logical to assume it does not exist.

The concepts of God we have in our scriptures are indeed man made. Which of course does not debunk God, but points to the possibilities of our higher self.

 

[Jeremiah]

I cannot continue a conversation with literalist/pure materialist. If you are interested in probing your assumptions about reality further, then by all means respond, but as it stands you are convinced that science has shown objective reality, when it has done nothing of the sort. Our little corner of reality is a drop inside a cosmic ocean, and despite the fact that we might have a hard time conceiving of how things might be outside our universe it does NOT follow that how our universe works applies to all other portions of reality nor does it follow that the line delineating our universe from other things is all that great.


Incidentally yes it is a form of causation and no it does not require time. Causation is exigency. It is what is required in order for something else to exist. And if by virtue of something's existence something else must exist inside it, then a form of causation is occurring/occurred. The inside thing's exist is dependent upon the outer/higher thing's existence. All qualitative relationships are a form of causation.


And if science is so "concerned" with "objective reality" then kindly explain this....

MTF

"I cannot continue a conversation with literalist/pure materialist. If you are interested in probing your assumptions about reality further, then by all means respond, but as it stands you are convinced that science has shown objective reality, when it has done nothing of the sort."

Clearly, you have a poor understanding of what "objectiveness" is and the role of science. Also, my views are not so much materialism but rather existentialism and completely compatible with a vast number of world-views.

"Causation is exigency."

No, it is cause and effect.

"
And if science is so "concerned" with "objective reality" then kindly explain this...."

I watched 5 seconds of that and as soon as it said "In the beginning there was nothing" I realized it was a bias, assumptive viewpoint.

 

[K.Venugopal]

islam does not believe that man is divine. if god was in all of us, then there goes the notion of an all limmitless god. god cannot have limmits, him being in us gives him limmits, humans have limmits.

God is limited if He is not everywhere. I am aware that Muslims say that God is conscious of everything but He is not everywhere. But can we separate God from His consciousness?

man is incomplete without god,

I agree with you.

but we are 2 different beings. if you were to create something and just left it somewhere, then that thing will want to know how and why it came to be. now put man in that possition, but with one difference, we didn't find god without him willing so. god has chosen the best among men to tell us about our purpose, that is god speaking through man rather than man being divine and discovering god.

God may speak through man or directly also, can’t He?

but man does not seek what is not there. religion is a result of god telling us about our purpose. everything in life has a purpose just as religon has a purpose, to reach god. and the purpose of our creation is to worship god.

... and realise that we are the God that we worship.

the concept of god in islam is very hard to fully understand. man cannot fully understand god while in this life and i for one cannot really explain much about Allah. so instead i will post relevant links regarding this and you can ask me questions about what is not clear. just to get started here are 2 of them. the first one contains the names of Allah which are his atribbutes and characteristics, that will help you to understand Allah better.

Are the attributes and characteristics of Allah different from Allah?

and the second link contains the concept of god in islam. it also speaks about Allah and explains many things in detail

The 99 most beautiful names in existence, the names of Allah (swt)

The concept of GOD in islam


so Brahman is in existence by himself or is he the result of something else ie. was he created, is he etternal?

Existence is eternal. Existence can also be called God.

and wich of the 2 is the cause of existence in hindu perspective?

Whatever we suppose would have caused existence is also existence. Therefore in existence there is no separation between the creator and the created.

existence has limmits, god doesn't. the above links can probablly give you a better understnading about this.

God exists and is therefore existence.

one question i need to ask you that i'm confused about, at present do you believe in a god creator,

The word Creator used for God is misleading because the so-called creation is only God in different forms. God cannot be separated from his creation.

do you believe there is no god

I do not believe there is a God separate from existence, as Islam does.

or do you believe that we are god.

We would not be if there was no God because we are but God in various forms.

god did not have to become something for nothing to become something. god does not need to change in order for things to happen.

God can change if He wishes to and God can cause change without Him changing. But whatever happens, it is God all the way through. There is nothing other than God in existence – God is existence and existence is God. We have only to bear in mind that whatever God can do, He cannot create Himself. That means He is already pre-existent. This also means that He cannot create anything that does not already exist. If it appears to be something new, it is so only in expression and not in essence.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Well you really do have a demon god don't you. He created all there is and then created man as his personal test to see if they will obey him. This is what a dictator does, he demand worship and adherence to a set of rules, those who fail to follow those rules to the letter are tortured and killed, same as your god. Anyone or thing demanding worship is vain, self centered, and arrogant certainly not a trait a god should possess. Not enough to create and leave us alone, no he must test us as one would do with a lab rat, so we become no more than gods lab rats, sure glad this demon god is only a myth.

Well put.

 

[K.Venugopal]

The purpose of all these theatrics in the life of the world is merely a test, to see which one among us behaves in a proper manner, and which one of us behaves in an improper manner...

If God needs to test to know something, then He is no God, is He?

 

[K.Venugopal]

To look up into clear starlight, and pronounce a denial of God, seems blind to me.

Seeing a God behind the starlight is fine. But dare we see behind the God? More Gods? At one point, we would stop seeing and ponder on the seer. Could the seer be the seen?

 

[K.Venugopal]

i few posts back i believe i've said Allah is beyond time, actually Allah is time:

Hadith Qudsi 4:​

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Allah said:


Sons of Adam inveigh against [the vicissitudes of] Time, and I am Time, in My hand is the night and the day (1).

(1) As the Almighty is the Ordainer of all things, to inveigh aginst misfortunes that are part of Time is tantamount to inveighing against Him.
It was related by al-Bukhari (also by Muslim).

Please make up your mind whether Allah is beyond time or is time. Time, even in the Hadith quoted, is implied to mean change. If so, Allah is the change that occurs. Are you prepared to go along this line of thought? It might be contradicting the Quran.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Seeing a God behind the starlight is fine. But dare we see behind the God? More Gods? At one point, we would stop seeing and ponder on the seer. Could the seer be the seen?

THIS which is seeking is THAT which is sought, and THAT which is sought is THIS which is seeking. - Wei Wu Wei

 

[K.Venugopal]

THIS which is seeking is THAT which is sought, and THAT which is sought is THIS which is seeking. - Wei Wu Wei

Thanks. Wei Wu Wei is new to me. I give below the Wikipedia link. Interesting.
Wei Wu Wei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually have not read the books but often come across quotes from them.
The quote is from his book,'All Else is Bondage; Non-Volitional Living'.

Wei Wu We

 

[Tiapan]

Is there a Creator?

Nope, never was, never will be.

Cheers

 

[zenzero]

Friends ben & venu,

When it is realised that THIS itself is part of THAT then WHO seeks WHOM?
*The seeker and the sought are one.*

Love & rgds

 

[K.Venugopal]

Friends ben & venu,

When it is realised that THIS itself is part of THAT then WHO seeks WHOM?
*The seeker and the sought are one.*

Love & rgds

On the dot, as usual.

 

[Thief]

Really?
If the 'seeker' and the 'sought' are one....
That makes me God, and the Creator.

I declare my own existence.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Thief,

Really?
If the 'seeker' and the 'sought' are one....
That makes me God, and the Creator.

I declare my own existence.

You appear very surprised.
In Sanatan Dharma there is a mantra *AHM BRAHMASMI* meaning *I am God*; besides Sufi saint Mansur declared *An Ul Haq* or *I am God*.

But kindly remember that when the seeker and the sought becomes ONe there is no seeker to declare anything.

Love & rgds

 

[Sunstone]

It is well known that deity is an emergent property of the universe. Therefore deity is not the creator.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Really?
If the 'seeker' and the 'sought' are one....
That makes me God, and the Creator.

I declare my own existence.

I think this non-dual idea is not one merely of academic interest. What happens with non-dual thought is that we transcend the ever nagging sense of lack that we seem to have inherited our life with. With it, fear, desire, anger etc goes. We become a light onto ourselves and a great sense of acceptance dawns upon us. We see duality as inevitable in life but not so in living. We realize our perfection as well as the perfection of our circumstances, because everything is the consequence of cause and effect - both inherent in the other.

In practical terms, we shall no longer be in the grip of the greatest Satanic force ever - money. Our needs become minimal. We no longer need to take an insurance policy on life. Human interaction would be based on love and no other motive. Every moment of life becomes a celebration of abundance. All nature bows to cherish us.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Actually have not read the books but often come across quotes from them.
The quote is from his book,'All Else is Bondage; Non-Volitional Living'.

Wei Wu We

A very distinguished looking man.