Is there an afterlife?

[Faithofchristian]

Any thoughts about Revelation 1:18_______

The day Jesus died he was then in hell ( biblical grave / ground ) - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
The ' lake of fire ' is ' second death '.
In other words, the definition of the ' lake of fire ' is ' second death ' as per Revelation 20:13-14; Revelation 21:8.

Biblical hell comes to a final end only after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' out of hell, then 'emptied-out hell' is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14.
To me 'delivered up' means resurrected out of biblical hell, the temporary grave.
Whereas ' Gehenna ' ( English: hellfire ) is symbolic of destruction.
What do the 'words from Jesus' mouth' do according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

As for Revelation 1:18.
First this is Christ Jesus speaking about his death and Resurrection.

And then Christ Jesus saying, that he has the keys of hell and death.
Meaning that Christ Jesus has Authority over hell and death.

Now the question is, Who is death, What is the name of death ?
According to Revelation 6:8, and the book of Hebrews 2:14.
Another name for Satan is death.
For Satan is death.

As for Acts 2:27, This is not about Christ Jesus, Had you back up to Verse 25, you would have found out that it's king David that's speaking in Verse's 25,26,27.

Seeing the lake of fire, As being the second death. Do you know when this takes place.
According to what God has given in the book of Revelation.

Notice in Revelation 20:13 --"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it.

Do you know what the ( sea ) Represents in the book of Revelation 17:15.

As for Isaiah 11:3,4, "And he ( Jesus ) shall not judge after the sight of his eyes"
Meaning that Jesus will not need witnesses, For Jesus already knows what each and everyone has done in their life.

Verse 4--" and he ( Jesus ) shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth"
This meaning, That the words which comes out of the mouth of Jesus, will cut like a sharp two-edged sword.
Revelation 1:16, Revelation 19:15.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As for Revelation 1:18.
First this is Christ Jesus speaking about his death and Resurrection.
And then Christ Jesus saying, that he has the keys of hell and death.
Meaning that Christ Jesus has Authority over hell and death.
Now the question is, Who is death, What is the name of death ?
According to Revelation 6:8, and the book of Hebrews 2:14.
Another name for Satan is death.
For Satan is death.
As for Acts 2:27, This is not about Christ Jesus, Had you back up to Verse 25, you would have found out that it's king David that's speaking in Verse's 25,26,27.
Seeing the lake of fire, As being the second death. Do you know when this takes place.
According to what God has given in the book of Revelation.
Notice in Revelation 20:13 --"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it.
Do you know what the ( sea ) Represents in the book of Revelation 17:15.
As for Isaiah 11:3,4, "And he ( Jesus ) shall not judge after the sight of his eyes"
Meaning that Jesus will not need witnesses, For Jesus already knows what each and everyone has done in their life.
Verse 4--" and he ( Jesus ) shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth"
This meaning, That the words which comes out of the mouth of Jesus, will cut like a sharp two-edged sword.
Revelation 1:16, Revelation 19:15.

I comprehend at Acts of the Apostles 2:25-27 that David is speaking in connection to his Lord ( Jesus ).
Acts of the Apostles 2:27 is about God Not leaving Jesus in the grave ( biblical hell ) as per Psalms 16:10.
Acts of the Apostles 2:30 the prophet is David of Acts of the Apostles 2:29 so God swore an oath to him (David)
David fell on (death's) sleep as per Acts of the Apostles 13:36 and David sees corruption, that is why Acts of the Apostles 2:34 can say David is still with us, ( did not ascend) whereas Jesus did Not see corruption - Acts of the Apostles 13:37. So, dead David 'meaning a not-living David' is still in the grave. Death being the opposite of life.
That is why Scripture likens a dead person to being in a sleep-like state until Resurrected out of biblical hell.
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:16; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As for Revelation 1:18.
First this is Christ Jesus speaking about his death and Resurrection.
Notice in Revelation 20:13 --"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it.
Do you know what the ( sea ) Represents in the book of Revelation 17:15.






As for Isaiah 11:3,4, "And he ( Jesus ) shall not judge after the sight of his eyes"
Meaning that Jesus will not need witnesses, For Jesus already knows what each and everyone has done in their life.
Verse 4--" and he ( Jesus ) shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth"
This meaning, That the words which comes out of the mouth of Jesus, will cut like a sharp two-edged sword.
Revelation 1:16, Revelation 19:15.

I find the sea of both Revelation 17:1 B and Revelation 17:15 is the ' sea of restless mankind ' - Isaiah 57:20.
(They are like spiritually dried-out people like the waters which were dried up mentioned at Revelation 16:12)
The ' waters ' represent troubles peoples ( that sea of mankind ) who keeps on churning like mire and dirt.
For as Isaiah 38:22 wrote: There is No peace for the wicked for ' woe ' is coming for those mentioned at Isaiah 17:11-13.
So, we can expect an overnight change (Isaiah 17:14 eveningtide) when ' they ' ( the powers that be ) will be saying, "Peace and Security" as per 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 as a precursor the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 whereas at that time God's people will follow the advice given at Isaiah 26:20.

 

[JustWondering]

Hell and the lake of fire, are two different things.

The first death is when the body dies and is buried in the ground.
The second death is when God destroys both the body and soul in hell.
Matthew 10:28

Seems rather convoluted, the OT makes no mention of souls, and the lake of fire was supposed to destroy hell itself, somehow. So, due to the bibles lack of clarity on any number of topics we are left with hundreds of different Christian sects that believe conflicting things, based off the same book, lol. The bible is a mess and obvious mythology, IMO.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I comprehend at Acts of the Apostles 2:25-27 that David is speaking in connection to his Lord ( Jesus ).
Acts of the Apostles 2:27 is about God Not leaving Jesus in the grave ( biblical hell ) as per Psalms 16:10.
Acts of the Apostles 2:30 the prophet is David of Acts of the Apostles 2:29 so God swore an oath to him (David)
David fell on (death's) sleep as per Acts of the Apostles 13:36 and David sees corruption, that is why Acts of the Apostles 2:34 can say David is still with us, ( did not ascend) whereas Jesus did Not see corruption - Acts of the Apostles 13:37. So, dead David 'meaning a not-living David' is still in the grave. Death being the opposite of life.
That is why Scripture likens a dead person to being in a sleep-like state until Resurrected out of biblical hell.
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:16; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.

What you didn't comprehend of
Acts 2:25-27, Was before Christ Jesus came into the world, At the time of
king David, people were held captive in the grave, But now that Christ Jesus has come and died and Resurrected.

Jesus Christ got victory over the grave and death As it is written in
1st Corinthians 15:55--"O death, where is your sting, O grave, where is your victory"

Therefore death and the grave no longer has a hold on people, There is no one in the graves, Only their dead body of flesh, corps body lays in the grave,
The Spirit has returned back to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7.

David himself, is not in the grave,
only David's dead body corps lays in the grave, David's spirit has returned back to God who gave it. EcclasEccles 12:7.

Have you read, where Christ Jesus spoken about the great gulf fixed in Luke 16:26
"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from there"
This means, once a person dies, they can not pass back here to us, Neither can those who are alive can not pass to those who are dead. Because there's a great gulf fixed between us and them. That neither one can pass to one another.

Do you have any idea who death is?
Do you have any idea, what is the name of death is ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I find the sea of both Revelation 17:1 B and Revelation 17:15 is the ' sea of restless mankind ' - Isaiah 57:20.
(They are like spiritually dried-out people like the waters which were dried up mentioned at Revelation 16:12)
The ' waters ' represent troubles peoples ( that sea of mankind ) who keeps on churning like mire and dirt.
For as Isaiah 38:22 wrote: There is No peace for the wicked for ' woe ' is coming for those mentioned at Isaiah 17:11-13.
So, we can expect an overnight change (Isaiah 17:14 eveningtide) when ' they ' ( the powers that be ) will be saying, "Peace and Security" as per 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 as a precursor the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 whereas at that time God's people will follow the advice given at Isaiah 26:20.

The sea, water, fountains of water, all represents,The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Revelation 17:15.

Can you show as to where it is written in the book of Revelation, Where people will follow the advice of Isaiah 26:20, Where is that written at in the book of Revelation.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Seems rather convoluted, the OT makes no mention of souls, and the lake of fire was supposed to destroy hell itself, somehow. So, due to the bibles lack of clarity on any number of topics we are left with hundreds of different Christian sects that believe conflicting things, based off the same book, lol. The bible is a mess and obvious mythology, IMO.

Maybe before you just wondering about things you should search it out first.You can go from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation and find soul and souls being spoke of.

That's your whole problem, You look at people, then you Judge the bible accordingly.
So I guess if I look at other people, than I can judge you accordingly also, Right.

 

[Trailblazer]

Seems rather convoluted, the OT makes no mention of souls, and the lake of fire was supposed to destroy hell itself, somehow. So, due to the bibles lack of clarity on any number of topics we are left with hundreds of different Christian sects that believe conflicting things, based off the same book, lol. The bible is a mess and obvious mythology, IMO.

So why do nonbelievers keep talking about the Bible, I wonder.

There have been two VERY important updates to God’s Word since the Bible was written, the Qur’an and the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. Both are much easier to decipher than the Bible.

If you want to know about the soul or the afterlife, just ask me. Baha’u’llah wrote a lot about those.

For one thing, we now know that the soul is more than “the breath if life” as it says in the OT, and it does not expire when we die physically. Rather, the soul continues to exist after we die physically and we are the same person we were before we died, less the physical body.

For another thing, we now know there is no place called hell, but rather that is just a metaphor for being distant from God. Moreover, nobody is confined to that state for eternity; even nonbelievers can come close to God after they die, although it is preferable not to wait that long.

 

[JustWondering]

Maybe before you just wondering about things you should search it out first.You can go from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation and find soul and souls being spoke of.

That's your whole problem, You look at people, then you Judge the bible accordingly.
So I guess if I look at other people, than I can judge you accordingly also, Right.

Please provide references to an immortal soul that can be found in the OT.

 

[JustWondering]

So why do nonbelievers keep talking about the Bible, I wonder.

There have been two VERY important updates to God’s Word since the Bible was written, the Qur’an and the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. Both are much easier to decipher than the Bible.

If you want to know about the soul or the afterlife, just ask me. Baha’u’llah wrote a lot about those.

For one thing, we now know that the soul is more than “the breath if life” as it says in the OT, and it does not expire when we die physically. Rather, the soul continues to exist after we die physically and we are the same person we were before we died, less the physical body.

For another thing, we now know there is no place called hell, but rather that is just a metaphor for being distant from God. Moreover, nobody is confined to that state for eternity; even nonbelievers can come close to God after they die, although it is preferable not to wait that long.

Claims that cannot be verified are meaningless to discuss (such as claims about a possible afterlife). As for believers being able to get close to god, why should it matter what they believed in life? Especially when there is no clear or convincing reasons to be a believer in the first place?

 

[JustWondering]

False clergy speak of suffering in hell.
The day Jesus' died he went to hell according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Since Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death at John 11:11-14, then Jesus believed the dead are in a sleep-like state.
So, Jesus was Not conscious while in biblical hell ( grave ) until his God resurrected Jesus out of the grave.

Some speak of suffering in hell because they can pull verses from the bible to back it up. Such a claim is hardly unbelievable when taking gods temperament and previous actions into consideration. The biblical god is all about punishment.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Please provide references to an immortal soul that can be found in the OT.

As to where did I ever say anything about an Immortal soul.

In your post #244, you never said anything about an Immortal soul either

Here's what you said, and show as to where you said anything about an Immortal soul.

(Seems rather convoluted, the OT makes no mention of souls, and the lake of fire was supposed to destroy hell itself, somehow. So, due to the bibles lack of clarity on any number of topics we are left with hundreds of different Christian sects that believe conflicting things, based off the same book, lol. The bible is a mess and obvious mythology, IMO.)

Therefore you should make yourself clear, before you go accusing someone of something. Which you never said yourself either.

 

[JustWondering]

As to where did I ever say anything about an Immortal soul.

In your post #244, you never said anything about an Immortal soul either

Here's what you said, and show as to where you said anything about an Immortal soul.

(Seems rather convoluted, the OT makes no mention of souls, and the lake of fire was supposed to destroy hell itself, somehow. So, due to the bibles lack of clarity on any number of topics we are left with hundreds of different Christian sects that believe conflicting things, based off the same book, lol. The bible is a mess and obvious mythology, IMO.)

Therefore you should make yourself clear, before you go accusing someone of something. Which you never said yourself either.

YOU made the claim that souls are spoken of throughout the bible, please back that up.

Secondly, I think that if the bible were truly inspired by a universe creating entity, it would be less prone to misinterpretation. We wouldn't have hundreds of sects with conflicting beliefs/messages. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers.

 

[Faithofchristian]

YOU made the claim that souls are spoken of throughout the bible, please back that up.

Secondly, I think that if the bible were truly inspired by a universe creating entity, it would be less prone to misinterpretation. We wouldn't have hundreds of sects with conflicting beliefs/messages. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers.

I did by saying you can go from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation, You can find souls being spoken of.
If you stop just wondering about it and check it out.
That's all because people like yourself, have no idea or clue what the Bible does say or confirm's. That's why there's misinterpretions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Claims that cannot be verified are meaningless to discuss (such as claims about a possible afterlife).

Claims about the soul also cannot be verified, so why are you discussing that with Christians?

As for believers being able to get close to god, why should it matter what they believed in life? Especially when there is no clear or convincing reasons to be a believer in the first place?

One reason it matters because of what God revealed that God wants us to know, in order for us to live a better life. How we live here will definitely affect our afterlife experience. It is not as if we can make up for everything that we did not do here after we die. We will be handicapped in the afterlife if we did not do what we were put on earth to do, acquire the spiritual qualities we will need in the afterlife.

If there no clear or convincing reasons to be a believer how is it that 93% of people in the world believe in God?

 

[JustWondering]

I did by saying you can go from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation, You can find souls being spoken of.
If you stop just wondering about it and check it out.
That's all because people like yourself, have no idea or clue what the Bible does say or confirm's. That's why there's misinterpretions.

Again, give me some examples of souls being mentioned in the OT. I made the claim that souls aren't mentioned, I'm not going to page through the whole of the OT just because you disagree with me. Besides, it should be easy for you to reference 2 or three verses right? Of course, I'm making the assumption that you know the bible well enough for that to be a simple task for you.

 

[JustWondering]

Claims about the soul also cannot be verified, so why are you discussing that with Christians?

I made a reference to how souls seem to be important in the NT and are not mentioned at all in the OT. Since there is no way to verify any claims about an afterlife what is there to discuss? You believe in certain claims about the afterlife and I doubt there is an afterlife at all?

One reason it matters because of what God revealed that God wants us to know, in order for us to live a better life. How we live here will definitely affect our afterlife experience. It is not as if we can make up for everything that we did not do here after we die. We will be handicapped in the afterlife if we did not do what we were put on earth to do, acquire the spiritual qualities we will need in the afterlife.

An inefficient way of doing things. If I were a god I'd do it differently.

If there no clear or convincing reasons to be a believer how is it that 93% of people in the world believe in God?

I'll refrain from answering this question because I'll only come off as a jerk even though I'd only be answering honestly and not trying to be a jerk.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Again, give me some examples of souls being mentioned in the OT. I made the claim that souls aren't mentioned, I'm not going to page through the whole of the OT just because you disagree with me. Besides, it should be easy for you to reference 2 or three verses right? Of course, I'm making the assumption that you know the bible well enough for that to be a simple task for you.

"But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul"
Deuteronomy 4:29.

"Truly my soul finds rest in God;
my salvation comes from him"
Psalm 62:1

"This is what the Lord says:
Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls.
But you said, ‘We will not walk in it"
Jeremiah 6:16

"Why, my soul, are you downcast?
Why so disturbed within me?
Put your hope in God,
for I will yet praise him,
my Savior and my God"
Psalm 42:11

"Praise the Lord, my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name"
Psalm 103:1

"Gracious words are a honeycomb,
sweet to the soul and healing to the bones".
Proverbs 16:24

"But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul"
Joshua 22:5

"The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple"
Psalm 19:7

"Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed"
Joshua 23:14

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Genesis 2:7

 

[Trailblazer]

I made a reference to how souls seem to be important in the NT and are not mentioned at all in the OT.

I do not know much about the Bible, but from what some people have told me the soul is mentioned in Genesis as being “the breath of life.” That is what several Christians have told me and even some nonbelievers told me that.

So I guess you must be trying to figure out why the NT mentions souls and not the OT. It would seem to me that the soul is connected with an afterlife, and since the OT did not talk much about the afterlife and the NT did, that might be why you see more written about the soul in the NT.

Also, the NT is based upon a “new” revelation from God to Jesus, and that is why it has new stuff that the OT did not have. Humanity was not ready to hear what Jesus had to say until He said it.

Since there is no way to verify any claims about an afterlife what is there to discuss? You believe in certain claims about the afterlife and I doubt there is an afterlife at all?

Just because nobody can verify claims about the afterlife does not mean it does not exist. (The same applies to claims about God).

I am certain there is a God and an afterlife even though I cannot verify either one.

An inefficient way of doing things. If I were a god I'd do it differently.

How would you instill spiritual qualities into humans if you were God and why does efficiency matter?

I'll refrain from answering this question because I'll only come off as a jerk even though I'd only be answering honestly and not trying to be a jerk.

If you were going to say that 93% of the world population is irrational, I have already been down that road many times since I have been posting to nonbelievers on forums 24/7 for four years.

Of course, the fact that 93% of people in the world believe in God does not prove that God exists. God either exists or not. It has nothing to do with what people believe or disbelieve.

 

[JustWondering]

"But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul"
Deuteronomy 4:29.

"Truly my soul finds rest in God;
my salvation comes from him"
Psalm 62:1

"This is what the Lord says:
Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls.
But you said, ‘We will not walk in it"
Jeremiah 6:16

"Why, my soul, are you downcast?
Why so disturbed within me?
Put your hope in God,
for I will yet praise him,
my Savior and my God"
Psalm 42:11

"Praise the Lord, my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name"
Psalm 103:1

"Gracious words are a honeycomb,
sweet to the soul and healing to the bones".
Proverbs 16:24

"But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul"
Joshua 22:5

"The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple"
Psalm 19:7

"Now I am about to go the way of all the earth. You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed"
Joshua 23:14

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Genesis 2:7

See, that wasn't so hard now was it. However, my main point was how the OT views souls as living things, and the NT views the soul as a separate thing from the body that survives after death. Guess I should have been more clear on that.