Is there an afterlife?

[JustWondering]

I do not know much about the Bible, but from what some people have told me the soul is mentioned in Genesis as being “the breath of life.” That is what several Christians have told me and even some nonbelievers told me that.

So I guess you must be trying to figure out why the NT mentions souls and not the OT. It would seem to me that the soul is connected with an afterlife, and since the OT did not talk much about the afterlife and the NT did, that might be why you see more written about the soul in the NT.

Also, the NT is based upon a “new” revelation from God to Jesus, and that is why it has new stuff that the OT did not have. Humanity was not ready to hear what Jesus had to say until He said it.

I see it as later religions building off an earlier one.

Just because nobody can verify claims about the afterlife does not mean it does not exist. (The same applies to claims about God).

I am certain there is a God and an afterlife even though I cannot verify either one.

Like I said, what is there to discuss? You believe and I don't.

How would you instill spiritual qualities into humans if you were God and why does efficiency matter?

What spiritual qualities? Assuming a god can do anything and it knows what it wants, if I were a god I'd just create things (including people) the way I wanted them to be to begin with, instead of playing games with them (which is unnecessarily cruel).

If you were going to say that 93% of the world population is irrational, I have already been down that road many times since I have been posting to nonbelievers on forums 24/7 for four years.

Of course, the fact that 93% of people in the world believe in God does not prove that God exists. God either exists or not. It has nothing to do with what people believe or disbelieve.

100% of people are irrational. The entire human species is irrational, no one group has a monopoly on being irrational.

 

[Faithofchristian]

See, that wasn't so hard now was it. However, my main point was how the OT views souls as living things, and the NT views the soul as a separate thing from the body that survives after death. Guess I should have been more clear on that.

Look if you go the Hebrew translation (5397) soul and spirit are one and the same.
The flesh body after it dies, returns back to the earth and the spirit returns back to God. Ecclesiastes 12:7.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see it as later religions building off an earlier one.

That is exactly what it is.

Like I said, what is there to discuss? You believe and I don't.

Okay, whatever. It will be whatever it is and we will all find out someday , or not find out anything at all.

What spiritual qualities? Assuming a god can do anything and it knows what it wants, if I were a god I'd just create things (including people) the way I wanted them to be to begin with, instead of playing games with them (which is unnecessarily cruel).

Love, mercy, grace, kindness to all, compassion, philanthropy, high aspirations, justice, truth, trustworthiness, humility and patience are all expressions of man’s spiritual nature. Every good habit, every noble quality, belongs to man’s spiritual nature,

If there was no need for us to acquire spiritual qualities, there would be no reason to ever be born and live in this world.

The whole shebang is based upon the fact that we have free will, and that is the reason God does not do what we can do for ourselves.

It is not God who wants us to be a certain way because God does not need anything from us, since God is fully self-sufficient. It is only for our own sake that God set it up this way, giving us the opportunity to acquire spiritual qualities. You can think of the material world as a school where we learn to acquire what spiritual qualities we will need in the afterlife, just as a in college we learn what we need to have to get a good job and lead a good life in this life.

100% of people are irrational. The entire human species is irrational, no one group has a monopoly on being irrational.

I am not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that everyone lives according to their emotions as opposed to their higher rational faculties?

That is true in a sense since only 5% of our thought is conscious and 95% is unconscious, and the unconscious is the repository of our emotions, which are often irrational.

So if we allow the unconscious mind to control our behavior chances are we will act irrationally. The more conscious we are the less irrational we will be. There are degrees of irrationality; clearly, some people are more irrational than other people. Those are usually people who have little conscious awareness.

 

[`mud]

Who...or what...created those `unconscious` emotions,
...the devil ?
Utterly laughable !
We are virile to the Earth, and we devoir it, and we spoil upon it.
And that `God`, out there, accepts that to be proof of the `right words` ?
Another laugh !
Meet you in the Cosmos ?

 

[`mud]

Who first said the `word` 'souls' ?
Who first assigned the qualities ?
Who first placed it in our bodies ?
Who first linked it to a holy ghost?
Who first called it the spiritwithin?
Who first said the word in mass ?
And on and on...

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

In the afterlife I’m planning to create the afterlife realm with all the other dead scientists, engineers, everyone, so that we’ve got somewhere to go to when we die.

 

[`mud]

That... and virgins....that's all that we need !!
And trumpets everywhere !

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

In the afterlife I’m planning to create the afterlife realm with all the other dead scientists, engineers, everyone, so that we’ve got somewhere to go to when we die.

But ‘everyone’ won’t actually be dead......they’ll just be going through the transition phase, getting connected to their new bodies (also designed in the afterlife realm).

You might see problems with this idea, but I’m sure someone can solve them in the afterlife realm.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Some speak of suffering in hell because they can pull verses from the bible to back it up. Such a claim is hardly unbelievable when taking gods temperament and previous actions into consideration. The biblical god is all about punishment.

I am wondering what you find is 'all about punishment' at Revelation 22:2 because mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations in fulfillment to God promise to father Abraham at Genesis 12:3 and Genesis 22:18 that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations through Christ. That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come. Come and bring those benefits to Earth for us.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But ‘everyone’ won’t actually be dead......they’ll just be going through the transition phase, getting connected to their new bodies (also designed in the afterlife realm).
You might see problems with this idea, but I’m sure someone can solve them in the afterlife realm.

I find those ' new bodies ' are resurrected healthy physical bodies during Jesus' 1,000-year rule over Earth.
So, instead of afterlife ( meaning more alive after death than before death ) it will be resurrection - Revelation 1:18.
Under Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth problems will be solved.
Even our last enemy 'death' will be No more on Earth according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

See, that wasn't so hard now was it. However, my main point was how the OT views souls as living things, and the NT views the soul as a separate thing from the body that survives after death. Guess I should have been more clear on that.

I find the OT views souls as both living people and animals according to Numbers 31:28
Before Adam came to life Adam was Not a living soul.
After God breathed the breath of life into life-less Adam, then as per Genesis 2:7, Adam became a living soul.
No where does it say Adam had a soul or that Adam possessed a soul, rather Adam was a soul.
At death then Adam became a dead soul or a life-less soul.
No post-mortem penalty for Adam, but just going back to the dust of the ground as per Genesis 3:19.
So, Adam went from non-life, to life, and 'returned' back to non-life.
No one can ' return ' to a place he never was before. So, Adam simply went back to where he started.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, give me some examples of souls being mentioned in the OT. I made the claim that souls aren't mentioned, .................

Any thoughts about Numbers 31:38

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Please provide references to an immortal soul that can be found in the OT.

Since there is No such thing as an immortal soul, then there would be No mention in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Adam did Not become a ' living soul ' until his God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7.
So, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned to non-life.
A person can Not ' return' to a place he never was before. Adam went back to dust - Genesis 3:19.
There was No post-mortem penalty for Adam and there is None for anyone else.
No post-mortem or double jeopardy because 'the dead know nothing' as per Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Know nothing but unconscious sleep - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18

 

[shmogie]

Since there is No such thing as an immortal soul, then there would be No mention in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Adam did Not become a ' living soul ' until his God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7.
So, Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned to non-life.
A person can Not ' return' to a place he never was before. Adam went back to dust - Genesis 3:19.
There was No post-mortem penalty for Adam and there is None for anyone else.
No post-mortem or double jeopardy because 'the dead know nothing' as per Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Know nothing but unconscious sleep - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18

I agree with your position re the immortality of the soul.

I am not sure what you mean by post mortem jeopardy.

If you mean that no one pops into heaven or hell after death, but rather "sleeps" till the resurrection, I agree.

Since you introduced a legal term, double jeopardy. In law it means once tried and acquitted for a crime, one cannot be placed in jeopardy with a possibility of conviction in another trial.

If you are using the term to mean that all death is applied as punishment for life's sins, and at the Resurrection a person gets a second bite at the apple, i.e. they have a second chance to live a life "properly" and choose salvation before the end, I can't agree.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree with your position re the immortality of the soul.
I am not sure what you mean by post mortem jeopardy.
If you mean that no one pops into heaven or hell after death, but rather "sleeps" till the resurrection, I agree.
Since you introduced a legal term, double jeopardy. In law it means once tried and acquitted for a crime, one cannot be placed in jeopardy with a possibility of conviction in another trial.
If you are using the term to mean that all death is applied as punishment for life's sins, and at the Resurrection a person gets a second bite at the apple, i.e. they have a second chance to live a life "properly" and choose salvation before the end, I can't agree.

In Scripture, I find Adam was told ' death ' was the price sin pays. No mention of anything beyond death.
No where does it say there was a post-mortem penalty for Adam, No double jeopardy for Adam.
In other words, nothing past his death. Adam would simply go back returning to dust as per Genesis 3:19.
Adam's death was eternal-lasting death. No returning to live life anywhere in heaven or on earth.

There are two (2) resurrections mentioned:
* Those who have a first or earlier heavenly resurrection there is No ' second death ' for them - Revelation 20:6
* Those who have a later or earthly resurrection can die a second time - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
This is because they will be judged on what they do ' after ' they are resurrected on earth.
Those who are left ' standing ' on earth at or after the end of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth, they will never experience a ' second death ' but will have gained everlasting life forever and ever here on earth.
As for those who prove unfaithful at the end of the thousand years - Revelation 20:8 B - they will loose out on that battle.
That symbolic ' fire ' of verse 9 is the 'lake of fire' of verse 14, and the definition of that fiery lake is ' second death ' as per Revelation 21:8 B; Jeremiah 51:57.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Look if you go the Hebrew translation (5397) soul and spirit are one and the same.
The flesh body after it dies, returns back to the earth and the spirit returns back to God. Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Before God breathed the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam, Adam did Not have life's spirit. Adam did Not come from heaven.
When Adam died his spirit of life died along with dead Adam.
Like a burnt-out light bulb, Adam lost all of his life.
All of Adam simply returned to the dust of the ground just as said at Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam returned down to where he started: dust.
Just as a foreclosed house does Not more or go anywhere, but simply goes back to the hands of the owner.
So, one's spirit simply goes back to God in the sense that any future life prospect is in God's hands.

I find it was Not until Adam received the ' breath of life '- Genesis 2:7 - is when Adam became a living soul.
At death then Adam become a ' dead soul ' or a ' lifeless soul '.
So, all of Adam went from non-life, to life, and retuned back to non-life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But ‘everyone’ won’t actually be dead......they’ll just be going through the transition phase, getting connected to their new bodies (also designed in the afterlife realm).
You might see problems with this idea, but I’m sure someone can solve them in the afterlife realm.

Since the Bible has No ' afterlife ' teaching (meaning more alive after death, than before death) then there is No afterlife realm of existence, but the Bible does teach resurrection - Revelation 1:18.
I find in the 'first or earlier resurrection' are the ones called and resurrected to Heaven - Revelation 20:6
The rest of the dead do Not come to life (healthy physical life) until the thousand-year reign of Christ over Earth.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......

 

[Faithofchristian]

Before God breathed the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam, Adam did Not have life's spirit. Adam did Not come from heaven.
When Adam died his spirit of life died along with dead Adam.
Like a burnt-out light bulb, Adam lost all of his life.
All of Adam simply returned to the dust of the ground just as said at Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam returned down to where he started: dust.
Just as a foreclosed house does Not more or go anywhere, but simply goes back to the hands of the owner.
So, one's spirit simply goes back to God in the sense that any future life prospect is in God's hands.

I find it was Not until Adam received the ' breath of life '- Genesis 2:7 - is when Adam became a living soul.
At death then Adam become a ' dead soul ' or a ' lifeless soul '.
So, all of Adam went from non-life, to life, and retuned back to non-life.

When Adam died, his body return back to the earth from where God took it from.

The spirit breath of life that God gave to Adam, so that Adam became a living breathing human being.
Adams spirit returned back
to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7---"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

 

[paarsurrey]

I do believe in afterlife. This is not the real-life we live , it is just like a dream while we see a dream we think it is real but when we wake up then we realize that it was not a real event.

There is no harm in believing in afterlife. It rather makes one a responsible human being.
Right, please?

Regards

 

[URAVIP2ME]

..... Ecclesiastes 12:7---"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Mortal Adam had No spirit of any kind before God ' breathed the breath of life ' into life-less Adam - Gen 2:7.
So, at death all of Adam ' returned ' to where Adam started - the dust as per Genesis 3:19.
No part of Adam was ever in Heaven. Rather, 'returning' to the ' dust ' of the ground is Not Heaven.
A person can't ' return ' to a place he never was before. No returning to Heaven for any part of Adam.
Adam was never a spirit angel. Adam was from the Earth and was earthly.
Adam was never offered Heaven, but 'everlasting life' right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Thus, Adam's spirit was an impersonal force of life. Hebrew ' ru'ach ' is impersonal like the wind.
Also, just as functioning electricity's current is never part of the machinery it operates but it is active.
So, Adam's impersonal life-spirit died along with Adam, just as an unplugged fan dies down.
That un-plugged fan needed an energizing force to function, so did Adam.
Adam's spirit of life enabled Adam to function, once that was gone, then Adam was gone.
So, at death breathing stops, and any future chance of breathing again rests with God.
That ' breathing ' again is connected to: resurrection.
God will bring back one's life's spirit when one is resurrected back from the dead.
- Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' in connection to: resurrection.