Is there an afterlife?

[URAVIP2ME]

Actually, Ecclesiates 12:7 says that "the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The spirit returns to God and the body returns to the ground.

Thank you for your reply.
I find that when Adam died that ALL of Adam died. ALL of Adam was a living soul as per Genesis 2:7.
There was No post-mortem penalty for dead Adam, and also No future life prospects for dead Adam.
To me, Jesus likened the founding of the world of mankind now traces back to faithful Abel - Matthew 23:35.
Seems to indicate that God had judged Cain as also Not worthy of a resurrection.

One's life spirit returns Not in a literal sense but as a foreclosed house ' returns ' to the owner.
The house does Not move, the house does Not go anywhere, but ownership of the house goes back to the owner.
So, any or all future life depends on resurrection.
Since the dead are in an un-conscious sleep-like state according to Jesus at John 11:11-14, and Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death at Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5, then there is No conscious spirit because the dead know nothing.

 

[Katzpur]

Thank you for your reply.
I find that when Adam died that ALL of Adam died. ALL of Adam was a living soul as per Genesis 2:7.

I agree that Adam was a living soul. He was a living soul from the moment God breathed "the breath of life" into his nostrils. I don't know what you believe this "breath of life" to be. I believe it to be Adam's spirit, the life force which turned his physical body into a living soul. I don't believe it's possible for the breath of life to die. The very words are contradictory. Consequently, I believe that when "the breath of life" left Adam's body, he was no longer a living soul, but merely a lifeless physical body.

There was No post-mortem penalty for dead Adam, and also No future life prospects for dead Adam.
To me, Jesus likened the founding of the world of mankind now traces back to faithful Abel - Matthew 23:35.
Seems to indicate that God had judged Cain as also Not worthy of a resurrection.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that when Adam died, that was it. He simply ceased to exist and would never exist again?

One's life spirit returns Not in a literal sense but as a foreclosed house ' returns ' to the owner.
The house does Not move, the house does Not go anywhere, but ownership of the house goes back to the owner.

But unless I'm mistaken, you do believe that the body does return to dust -- in a very literal sense. I'm of the opinion that the spirit does return to God and never dies but will cause the body to once again become a "living soul" at the resurrection. The difference is that, this time around, the body will be perfected and the spirit will never again leave it. It will be the "breath of life" that will sustain the resurrected body throughout eternity.

I do have one question for you, though... If the spirit actually does die, along with the body, of what possible use is a dead spirit to God? Why would it return to his keeping if it were dead? Why did Jesus commend His spirit to His Father when He died? Why would His Father have wanted His dead spirit?

So, any or all future life depends on resurrection.
Since the dead are in an un-conscious sleep-like state according to Jesus at John 11:11-14, and Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death at Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5, then there is No conscious spirit because the dead know nothing.

I disagree. The body, which is dead because there is no longer a breath of life (or spirit) inhabiting it, is, in fact, dead. It is, in fact, conscious of nothing. But when Jesus preached to the spirits in prison during the time His body lay in the tomb, they were entirely cognizant of what was going on. They were able to listen and hear Him speak and they were able to either accept or reject His message. Why would He have even bothered if these spirits, like the bodies they had once occupied, were unconscious?

I know you will disagree with most of what I've said, and having expressed my point of view, I really don't have any burning desire to try to change your mind. I think this is simply something upon which we are going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[`mud]

I guess it's what one calls` it`,
`God`...`_od`...`trinity`...`Nirvana`...`Brahman`...`Ra`...`Cosmos`...and on and...
Or `it` had a son or not, we are all `Children of the Cosmos`, aren't we ?
We must ruturn to the prime cause, from whense we came.
Life is a bunch of stuff, we taste a little of it, and some; a lot.
But the Cosmos is waiting patiently, as always and ever.
Voicing texts of ancient verses doesn't make them true,
tell your own message,
in your own words,
Matthew isn't needed.
NuffStuff

 

[syo]

do you believe there is life after death?

yes. we reincarnate and we start a new life in a new form.

 

[JustWondering]

I find Scripture does Not support or teach afterlife but rather teaches about resurrection.
The afterlife theory is more about being more alive after death than before death.
Whereas resurrection is about being restored to life at some future point through Jesus as per Revelation 1:18.
Those of Revelation 20:6 have a first or earlier resurrection.
The majority of mankind to have a future resurrection back to live a physical happy-and-healthy life on Earth.
That is why the 'future tense' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that ' there will be ' a resurrection.....

The people (figurative sheep) of Matthew 25:31-33 do Not have a selfish nature.
They live by Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has. They are Not just waiting for some deity to solve problems, but they do know the majority of mankind now falls into the description found at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13. So, mankind's problems are too BIG for mankind in general to solve and that is why Jesus taught about God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 is the coming solution. And that is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come.
Come and usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

lol, so you obviously belong to the group that is waiting for an imagined deity to show up and fix our problems for us. I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.

 

[spiros]

I don't know, but I'm treating this life as if it's the only one I have. Figured I'd get more done than if I'm just waiting for the next go around.

Note** I wrote this on purpos3 so excuse unedited grammar

I think people have the misconception that faith adhering people live as if they live to die. I can't speak for people who adhere to faith or spirituality. but I feel that it is a misconception that these ppl live strict as if they are living to die. That's not true. I don't see how living to die is why people adhere to faith then again I don't know the motives or aspirations of others especially as ppl get older. I have had a lot of experiences. And then I found faith. I don't see my faith as encroaching my freedom or as a detterance or other interests. It is just another faze in my life that I enjoy. It something that I discovered. It's something that makes sense to me but may not make sense to others.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you going to tell me that you seriously don't see why it would be offensive to religious people to hear you say that you "don't want to give up on [us]"? That is so condescending!

I recognize it as negative; that's why I'm trying to avoid coming to that conclusion... perhaps irrationally myself.

You're still holding out hope that I'm possibly rational, but instead "not endowed with reason or understanding and lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence." (That's the dictionary definition of irrational.)

Yes, but certainly not just you. And really only on the issue of religion.

I have known you for just about as long as I've known anybody on this forum, and I've really tried to be forthright and honest with you in all of our discussions. You're telling me now that I don't give you straight answers, but that you don't want to give up on me anyway. Why can't you just accept the fact that I've tried and failed to express myself and that I'm getting frustrated, not to mention insulted.

It's not just you. In the decade or so that I've been on here, I've asked theists of all descriptions in all sorts of ways about why they think their beliefs are true; in that time, I've never heard a rational justification for their claims. Not once.

It's very common. There are a lot of us irrational folks wandering around, and yet managing to live full lives and not ending up institutionalized.

Right: for the vast majority, religious beliefs tend to have virtually no real-world implications. Luckily, the number of people who, say, use prayer as a substitute for medical care for their kids is pretty small.

It's an ordeal to be told (basically every time we talk) that the conclusions I've come to are "not just apparently ludicrous but actually ludicrous" just because they can't be proven via the scientific method. So if you still can't figure out why I am through trying, I'm genuinely sorry, but I've done my best to explain.

Don't misrepresent me. I've never asked you to prove anything "via the scientific method;" I've only ever asked you for rational answers to some version of "how do you know that's true?"

One final thought: If I live to be 100, I'm never going to understand why you have "contempt for religion" in the first place. I can appreciate why you would have contempt for some of the things religious people do when their religions start controlling them. But other than that, there is nothing for you to have contempt for! I don't have contempt for atheism. I simply recognize that atheists don't see an divine component in our lives. I don't get all frustrated because the best they can do is say, "there's no proof of a God so I'm not going to believe in one." I don't feel the need to pressure them for an explanation beyond that, because I know that's the best they're going to be able to do.

Religion isn't just belief in God in an abstract sense; it's usually devotion of a significant portion of a person's life... or sometimes their entire life. It's also ministers and evangelists trying to convince people to devote their lives to it, too.

If all an evangelist has to back up what they're selling is "well, you can't prove it's not true!" then they're on the same ethical level as snake oil salesmen... who can also often honestly say that we can't prove their product doesn't work.

... but unlike snake oil salesmen, I subsidize all of it with my tax dollars and our culture expects deference to it. As much as I see, say, homeopathy or reiki as scams, nobody ever suggests that I literally bow my head in respect to these things or give them special deference... but they do with religion. And they never, ever, give a proper answer to any question about what the justification for any of it is.

So that's why I feel drawn to contempt. That's part of it anyway. I tried to give a better explanation, but it ended up getting even more ranty than this post was.

 

[socharlie]

Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback yesterday on my video about religion.

My question for you guys is, do you believe there is life after death? If yes, tell me why. And if no, tell me why as well but explain to me on how you deal with knowing there is just this life and no other.

If you dream you have seen the other world where your physical body does not exist.

 

[Katzpur]

So that's why I feel drawn to contempt. That's part of it anyway. I tried to give a better explanation, but it ended up getting even more ranty than this post was.

Well, thanks for your attempt to explain. Sometimes it's hard to explain why we feel how we do, just as it's hard to explain why we believe what we do. And in an effort not to rant myself, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Is there an after life ?

Seeing scientist can not prove or disprove if there is or there isn't life after death.

That leaves people to decide for themselves is there life after death or not.

So the Unknown stands there in complete silence. Waiting for people dieing and then the Unknown Comes staring them in the face, to take them over into the Unknown.

Do I believe there's life after death, yes I do.
It's not for me to prove this to anyone.

That's up to each individual to take upon themselves to believe or not to believe is there life ater death.

Just because I or anyone else believes in life after death, does not mean someone else will believe there's life after death also.

But however it is a fact, that the Unknown is there. There's no denying that fact.

The other fact is, What a person believes what lays over in the Unknown for them.

One person can say, there's nothing, This does not mean someone else will see that way also.
So I'm not going to debate whether there is or isn't life after death.

No more can a person debate over the fact that the Unknown does in fact stand there in silence just waiting for a person dieing, and then the Unknown comes to life standing there staring them in the fact, to take them over into the Unknown.

Therefore throughout a person life the Unknown has been standing by in silence, just waiting for the day, when a person is laying dieing and then the Unknown comes out of it's silence, Standing staring them in the face, Just been standing by in all silence all your life and now comes to take you over into the Unknown.

Sounds like a book of Stephen King's horror fiction story.
But the problem is, it's not some horror fiction story,
It's Reality.
The Unknown stands there in silence throughout a persons life, Just Waiting in Silence ?

 

[`mud]

I guess it's a toss up, isn't it ?
Another coin on it's edge !

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree that Adam was a living soul. He was a living soul from the moment God breathed "the breath of life" into his nostrils. I don't know what you believe this "breath of life" to be. I believe it to be Adam's spirit, the life force which turned his physical body into a living soul. I don't believe it's possible for the breath of life to die. The very words are contradictory. Consequently, I believe that when "the breath of life" left Adam's body, he was no longer a living soul, but merely a lifeless physical body.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that when Adam died, that was it. He simply ceased to exist and would never exist again?
But unless I'm mistaken, you do believe that the body does return to dust -- in a very literal sense. I'm of the opinion that the spirit does return to God and never dies but will cause the body to once again become a "living soul" at the resurrection. The difference is that, this time around, the body will be perfected and the spirit will never again leave it. It will be the "breath of life" that will sustain the resurrected body throughout eternity.
I do have one question for you, though... If the spirit actually does die, along with the body, of what possible use is a dead spirit to God? Why would it return to his keeping if it were dead? Why did Jesus commend His spirit to His Father when He died? Why would His Father have wanted His dead spirit?
I disagree. The body, which is dead because there is no longer a breath of life (or spirit) inhabiting it, is, in fact, dead. It is, in fact, conscious of nothing. But when Jesus preached to the spirits in prison during the time His body lay in the tomb, they were entirely cognizant of what was going on. They were able to listen and hear Him speak and they were able to either accept or reject His message. Why would He have even bothered if these spirits, like the bodies they had once occupied, were unconscious?
I know you will disagree with most of what I've said, and having expressed my point of view, I really don't have any burning desire to try to change your mind. I think this is simply something upon which we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I find No problem with 'agree to disagree'. Thank you for your point of view.

As Jesus taught the one who sins against God's holy spirit there is No forgiveness.
Unlike Eve, Adam's sin was deliberate disobedience to what God taught Adam, so Adam will Not have a resurrection, but remain just as ALL of Adam returned to the ground as per Genesis 3:19; 1Timothy 2:14.
I find it interesting that Jesus starts his counting of 'righteous mankind' beginning or going back to righteous Abel and Not Cain nor Adam and Eve as per Matthew 23:35.

If Jesus' friend was Not dead at John 11:11-14 then there would have been No need for Jesus to resurrect his dead friend. Also, besides Jesus teaching the dead are in a sleep-like state so do the Psalms teach sleep in death such as at Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 and what King Solomon wrote at Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing. To me this is talking about dead 'people'.

Just as a foreclosed house does Not move, does Not go anywhere, but returns to the owner, so too one's spirit goes back to God. So, any awakening from death's deep sleep (Including for Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13 ) rests in God's hands and He gave Jesus the power of the resurrection - Revelation 1:18.

To me, 1 Peter 3:18 B is saying about the 'resurrected Jesus' before he ascended to heaven, that the resurrected Jesus was made alive in the spirit. ( Resurrected back in his original pre-human heavenly spirit body. Please compare 1 Corinthians 15:45 ), so the 'spirits in prison' as mentioned at 1 Peter 3:19 are the wicked spirits of 2 Peter 2:4-5 who are living bad angels and Not people.
That prison for those disobedient spirit angels of Noah's day (Jude 6) is Not the temporary grave as Jesus was in according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27, but tatarus. So, to me I find there is a BIG difference between the grave of Acts of the Apostles 2:27 and the tatarus of Jude 6 where the conscious alive bad angels of 2 Peter 2:4 are in til their destruction when Jesus will destroy sinner Satan as per Hebrews 2:14 B.
In other words, those 'Not dead spirits' or bad angels, are Not dead humans. Dead humans who were or are awaiting a resurrection to either heaven for some like those of Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10;2:10, or to have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden originally was starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I guess it's a toss up, isn't it ?
Another coin on it's edge !

No toss up for Jesus who was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Every resurrection was a physical resurrection to healthy life on Earth.
Since Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach only ' sleep ' in death, then the dead know nothing until resurrection day ( Resurrection Day is Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth )
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......

Even King Solomon (known for his God's given wisdom) wrote to us that the dead know nothing.
So, dead people are Not conscious, and that is why Jesus at John 11:11-14 likens death to sleep.
The Psalms also teach sleep in death at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4.
Daniel looked forward to a coming future day as mentioned at Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13 of standing up again.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

lol, so you obviously belong to the group that is waiting for an imagined deity to show up and fix our problems for us. I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.

Instead of holding your breath ( bad idea anyway ) why Not read 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 because the Deity of the Bible is letting us know that when ' they ' ( the powers that be ) are saying, " Peace and Security " that is only a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures, so instead of just wondering, then Jesus knew why the theme of his teaching of Luke 4:43 about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 is the solution. Those who truly follow Jesus live by the Golden Rule and Jesus New commandment of John 13:13-35 in having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.

 

[Loverofknowledge]

Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback yesterday on my video about religion.

My question for you guys is, do you believe there is life after death? If yes, tell me why. And if no, tell me why as well but explain to me on how you deal with knowing there is just this life and no other.

I love this question. Reincarnation answers it I believe. It is a cornerstone in my Druze faith and I have many stories of children talking about their "other" family. The kids are taken to the described home and meet their former families. We all hear stories of kids saying "Your not my mom!!" and generally disregard it as attitude or anger for not getting that ice-cream they really wanted. This is because they remember their former mother and struggle to share their memories. YouTube has a video titled The boy that lived before. Its a little eerie but the message is clear.

 

[JustWondering]

Instead of holding your breath ( bad idea anyway ) why Not read 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 because the Deity of the Bible is letting us know that when ' they ' ( the powers that be ) are saying, " Peace and Security " that is only a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures, so instead of just wondering, then Jesus knew why the theme of his teaching of Luke 4:43 about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 is the solution. Those who truly follow Jesus live by the Golden Rule and Jesus New commandment of John 13:13-35 in having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.

I've never understood why theists like you quote the bible to atheists like me after I've clearly stated that I think the bible is nothing more than mythology. Its like you saying that you don't believe in scientology to a scientologist and then they start quoting dianetics to you. They would have to demonstrate that dianetics was a reliable source of information to you first right? Otherwise, what's the point?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback yesterday on my video about religion.

My question for you guys is, do you believe there is life after death? If yes, tell me why. And if no, tell me why as well but explain to me on how you deal with knowing there is just this life and no other.

Let me ask you a question instead.

If there was an afterlife, why would it matter to you? And if there isn't, all pain and suffering will be over, so what's the big deal?

To an atheist, they have a guilt complex of something straight out of Sinners at the Hands of an Angry God. To a theist, the thought of becoming nothing is creepy.

To the former, I ask "Why does it matter to you?" And to the latter, I would say the other. An end to suffering is an end to suffering, and as scary as the depiction of the afterlife is from crazed hellfire types, ultimately, punishment can't hurt you if you don't even believe in it.

 

[`mud]

All that and.....
It is what it is....nothing more !
Sense you in the Cosmos

 

[JustWondering]

Is there an after life ?

Seeing scientist can not prove or disprove if there is or there isn't life after death.

That leaves people to decide for themselves is there life after death or not.

So the Unknown stands there in complete silence. Waiting for people dieing and then the Unknown Comes staring them in the face, to take them over into the Unknown.

Do I believe there's life after death, yes I do.
It's not for me to prove this to anyone.

That's up to each individual to take upon themselves to believe or not to believe is there life ater death.

Just because I or anyone else believes in life after death, does not mean someone else will believe there's life after death also.

But however it is a fact, that the Unknown is there. There's no denying that fact.

The other fact is, What a person believes what lays over in the Unknown for them.

One person can say, there's nothing, This does not mean someone else will see that way also.
So I'm not going to debate whether there is or isn't life after death.

No more can a person debate over the fact that the Unknown does in fact stand there in silence just waiting for a person dieing, and then the Unknown comes to life standing there staring them in the fact, to take them over into the Unknown.

Therefore throughout a person life the Unknown has been standing by in silence, just waiting for the day, when a person is laying dieing and then the Unknown comes out of it's silence, Standing staring them in the face, Just been standing by in all silence all your life and now comes to take you over into the Unknown.

Sounds like a book of Stephen King's horror fiction story.
But the problem is, it's not some horror fiction story,
It's Reality.
The Unknown stands there in silence throughout a persons life, Just Waiting in Silence ?

Ah, the old Christian tactic of trying to scare people into believing your religion. If you're fine with people latching onto your religion out of fear, what's that say about your religion and it adherents in general? Makes your religion seem shady to me.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Ah, the old Christian tactic of trying to scare people into believing your religion. If you're fine with people latching onto your religion out of fear, what's that say about your religion and it adherents in general? Makes your religion seem shady to me.

I don't know what religion your talking about, since I don't belong to no religion, nor any religious organization or church.
So that cancels that all out.

Therefore to say a scare tactic, There's no scare tactic to it, just simple fact, That the Unknown does stand there, Which every human being will come face to face. And there's no escape.

You can go about all you want trying to deny the fact, But the Unknown stands there in silence, just waiting for the day, to show it's self. And it will happen and that's Fact. There's no escape.