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Is there any other religions than Christianity require believing in Jesus to be a follower?
- Thread starter Smart_Guy
- Start date
A great many doctrines do in fact require or at least encourage people to believe in Jesus at least as a noteworthy person.
Kardecist spiritists, Rastafari, a good percentage of all occult groups, all Bahais, and of course Muslims, including Ahmadi.
Those views are not always very convergent in their beliefs. Spiritists do not think of Jesus as exactly a prophet nor as an aspect of God. In truth, they do not make much of a distinction between God and a "highly evolved spirit". Their doctrine actually assures believers that they will eventually reach "a higher level of spiritual development" than that which Jesus had when alive.
Of course, there are also all varieties of actual Christian groups, including some that claim to be some form of Judaism and some such as Mormons that not all Christians acknowledge as being Christians.
As a sidenote, are you aware of Jean-Baptiste Roustaing's schism from Kardecist Spiritism? Roustaing is actually believed by many spiritists to be the reincarnation of Muhammad. I don't expect Muslims to be pleased by that, but that is what they claim.
That belief is one of many controversies that divide the otherwise very strong, huge spiritist movement here in Brazil.
Kardecist spiritists, Rastafari, a good percentage of all occult groups, all Bahais, and of course Muslims, including Ahmadi.
Those views are not always very convergent in their beliefs. Spiritists do not think of Jesus as exactly a prophet nor as an aspect of God. In truth, they do not make much of a distinction between God and a "highly evolved spirit". Their doctrine actually assures believers that they will eventually reach "a higher level of spiritual development" than that which Jesus had when alive.
Of course, there are also all varieties of actual Christian groups, including some that claim to be some form of Judaism and some such as Mormons that not all Christians acknowledge as being Christians.
As a sidenote, are you aware of Jean-Baptiste Roustaing's schism from Kardecist Spiritism? Roustaing is actually believed by many spiritists to be the reincarnation of Muhammad. I don't expect Muslims to be pleased by that, but that is what they claim.
That belief is one of many controversies that divide the otherwise very strong, huge spiritist movement here in Brazil.
Limo
Active Member
If we're talking about El-Mesiah ben (son of) Mariam the human the prophet who is born without a father who wasn't crucified, died, resurrected, who is not Son of God, who is not God, Who is not member in Trinity, then we believe in him and we'll not be a Muslim if we didn't believe in El-Messiah and all other prophets like Ibrahim, Isaac, Mosa,,,,
If we're talking about Jesus-Christ who is Son of God or God or member in Trinity, who was crucified, died, resurrected, then we don;t believe in him. If someone believes in him, he's not a Muslim
If we're talking about Jesus-Christ who is Son of God or God or member in Trinity, who was crucified, died, resurrected, then we don;t believe in him. If someone believes in him, he's not a Muslim
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks..
Hmm - the legitimate follower of Christ would adhere to NO religion whatsoever
Well - no STRUCTURED religion...They would NOT for instance gather for a "service" in a church - or a "sermon" - there would be no "leader" - no "doctrine" or dogma - no HEIRACHY - no rituals - no pointless prayers - no bowing grovelling before the crucifix on the wall - all that normal accepted religious malarky would be straight out the window as they say...
It would be seen as - utter nonsense - to the legitimate follower of Christ - who needs NO such things at all and indeed, will know and understand that such things are a direct hinderance to the endeavour to commune DIRECTLY with the Divine - for THAT itself - DIRECT COMMUNION - is the very thing that Christ ACTUALLY teaches and He has already told - those with ears to hear - to shun and avoid all this religious chicanery completely....
You know - you MUST come to HATE your "parents" - their ways and traditions He said...DAMN those pharisee teachers who neither KNOW TRUTH and would not share it freely if they did He likewise warned - REPEATEDLY.. They DONT KNOW MY FATHER He said and are actually MISLEADING you on purpose......He said all that very clearly - they murdered Him for His truth as He was absolutely 100% OPPOSED to their religion and their god and taught an entirely new and completly different truth altogether - and literally all His ORIGINAL teaching is aimed at taking us fully AWAY from that indoctrinated dominated mind - AWAY from the religious malarky which He DID say REPEATEDLY was utter farce, and totally useless and indeed a DIRECT hinderance just as said, to the LEGITIMATE search for spiritual truth. You do NOT come to the Father He said by following these "others" who profess to lead you - they DONT KNOW TRUTH He warned - come away form them - HATE and DAMN them He said - yes..??...
Quit babbling like a pagan He said - no more temple worship AT ALL, but instead when you seek my Father GO ALONE into a private place and seek INWARDS - NOT out in a temple congregation church service - not ofund from words from a book - but seek the LIVING TRUTH always..These other EXTERNAL sources will ALWAYS lead you astray He said - for those with ears to hear - and so we begin to see clearly -Christ and religion - are DIRECTLY OPPOSED - and there can never be a religion at all thta is "sacntioned2 by Him...ALL those religions that bare His name now FAIL to realise His truth at all...
Hmm - the legitimate follower of Christ would adhere to NO religion whatsoever
Well - no STRUCTURED religion...They would NOT for instance gather for a "service" in a church - or a "sermon" - there would be no "leader" - no "doctrine" or dogma - no HEIRACHY - no rituals - no pointless prayers - no bowing grovelling before the crucifix on the wall - all that normal accepted religious malarky would be straight out the window as they say...
It would be seen as - utter nonsense - to the legitimate follower of Christ - who needs NO such things at all and indeed, will know and understand that such things are a direct hinderance to the endeavour to commune DIRECTLY with the Divine - for THAT itself - DIRECT COMMUNION - is the very thing that Christ ACTUALLY teaches and He has already told - those with ears to hear - to shun and avoid all this religious chicanery completely....
You know - you MUST come to HATE your "parents" - their ways and traditions He said...DAMN those pharisee teachers who neither KNOW TRUTH and would not share it freely if they did He likewise warned - REPEATEDLY.. They DONT KNOW MY FATHER He said and are actually MISLEADING you on purpose......He said all that very clearly - they murdered Him for His truth as He was absolutely 100% OPPOSED to their religion and their god and taught an entirely new and completly different truth altogether - and literally all His ORIGINAL teaching is aimed at taking us fully AWAY from that indoctrinated dominated mind - AWAY from the religious malarky which He DID say REPEATEDLY was utter farce, and totally useless and indeed a DIRECT hinderance just as said, to the LEGITIMATE search for spiritual truth. You do NOT come to the Father He said by following these "others" who profess to lead you - they DONT KNOW TRUTH He warned - come away form them - HATE and DAMN them He said - yes..??...
Quit babbling like a pagan He said - no more temple worship AT ALL, but instead when you seek my Father GO ALONE into a private place and seek INWARDS - NOT out in a temple congregation church service - not ofund from words from a book - but seek the LIVING TRUTH always..These other EXTERNAL sources will ALWAYS lead you astray He said - for those with ears to hear - and so we begin to see clearly -Christ and religion - are DIRECTLY OPPOSED - and there can never be a religion at all thta is "sacntioned2 by Him...ALL those religions that bare His name now FAIL to realise His truth at all...
Tumah
Veteran Member
Come on, you were doing so much better in your last post. Why'd you have to go back to your old wall-of-text ways?Hi Folks..
Hmm - the legitimate follower of Christ would adhere to NO religion whatsoever
Well - no STRUCTURED religion...They would NOT for instance gather for a "service" in a church - or a "sermon" - there would be no "leader" - no "doctrine" or dogma - no HEIRACHY - no rituals - no pointless prayers - no bowing grovelling before the crucifix on the wall - all that normal accepted religious malarky would be straight out the window as they say...
It would be seen as - utter nonsense - to the legitimate follower of Christ - who needs NO such things at all and indeed, will know and understand that such things are a direct hinderance to the endeavour to commune DIRECTLY with the Divine - for THAT itself - DIRECT COMMUNION - is the very thing that Christ ACTUALLY teaches and He has already told - those with ears to hear - to shun and avoid all this religious chicanery completely....
You know - you MUST come to HATE your "parents" - their ways and traditions He said...DAMN those pharisee teachers who neither KNOW TRUTH and would not share it freely if they did He likewise warned - REPEATEDLY.. They DONT KNOW MY FATHER He said and are actually MISLEADING you on purpose......He said all that very clearly - they murdered Him for His truth as He was absolutely 100% OPPOSED to their religion and their god and taught an entirely new and completly different truth altogether - and literally all His ORIGINAL teaching is aimed at taking us fully AWAY from that indoctrinated dominated mind - AWAY from the religious malarky which He DID say REPEATEDLY was utter farce, and totally useless and indeed a DIRECT hinderance just as said, to the LEGITIMATE search for spiritual truth. You do NOT come to the Father He said by following these "others" who profess to lead you - they DONT KNOW TRUTH He warned - come away form them - HATE and DAMN them He said - yes..??...
Quit babbling like a pagan He said - no more temple worship AT ALL, but instead when you seek my Father GO ALONE into a private place and seek INWARDS - NOT out in a temple congregation church service - not ofund from words from a book - but seek the LIVING TRUTH always..These other EXTERNAL sources will ALWAYS lead you astray He said - for those with ears to hear - and so we begin to see clearly -Christ and religion - are DIRECTLY OPPOSED - and there can never be a religion at all thta is "sacntioned2 by Him...ALL those religions that bare His name now FAIL to realise His truth at all...
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks...
Tumah; lol - wall..??....Hardly just a few "bricks" of truth thrown together quickly...
Seriously though - the damage here is so deep and inbred - it takes many many MANY attempts to break down THEIR wall - the "religious wall" of false doctrines that bare His name - things done in His name that He would NEVER sanction - things said in His name that HE NEVER INTENDED - so called truths given in His name that HE did NOT give !!
All that MUST be put aside first - He said it clearly - all that religious bs - even in HIS day He knew it was a problem -and in this modern world surely it is even more so - look how many more "religions" we now have to add ot thwe confusion - and at the base and core He is telling us to AVOID IT ALL - isnt He..??...
Tumah; lol - wall..??....Hardly just a few "bricks" of truth thrown together quickly...
Seriously though - the damage here is so deep and inbred - it takes many many MANY attempts to break down THEIR wall - the "religious wall" of false doctrines that bare His name - things done in His name that He would NEVER sanction - things said in His name that HE NEVER INTENDED - so called truths given in His name that HE did NOT give !!
All that MUST be put aside first - He said it clearly - all that religious bs - even in HIS day He knew it was a problem -and in this modern world surely it is even more so - look how many more "religions" we now have to add ot thwe confusion - and at the base and core He is telling us to AVOID IT ALL - isnt He..??...
Tumah
Veteran Member
When you build a wall that has so many bricks, nobody pays attention to the bricks, they just see a big wall. Walls aren't interesting.Hi Folks...
Tumah; lol - wall..??....Hardly just a few "bricks" of truth thrown together quickly...
Seriously though - the damage here is so deep and inbred - it takes many many MANY attempts to break down THEIR wall - the "religious wall" of false doctrines that bare His name - things done in His name that He would NEVER sanction - things said in His name that HE NEVER INTENDED - so called truths given in His name that HE did NOT give !!
All that MUST be put aside first - He said it clearly - all that religious bs - even in HIS day He knew it was a problem -and in this modern world surely it is even more so - look how many more "religions" we now have to add ot thwe confusion - and at the base and core He is telling us to AVOID IT ALL - isnt He..??...
There used to be something called Manichaeism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism#Influences
It supposedly died out around 700 AD
It supposedly died out around 700 AD
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks...
Yer, Mani is a very interesting character - far more "spiritual" than "religious" - based his entire theology on the PERSONALLY REVEALED TRUTH - the gnosis so gained - as I my Self do - as Christ taught and advised as the only legitimate path - follow THAT inner guide always He said - attain the Holy Ghost.....
Indeed, Mani actually had some very similar experiences to my own - in that at first he believed the "spirit" he encountered and communed with was a seperate entity - but then later realised that actually this was in fact his OWN SOUL - his own eternal nature that he had found - and only AFTER that realisation set in did he begin to realise other universal truths to creation itself and begin to encounter the spiritual realms that always surround us...As usual - OTHERS took his knowledge that he wrote down and they formed a "religion" out of the things he experienced himself directly....As usual then - ALL RELIGION IS SECONDHAND KNOWLEDGE learned from an other external source, and it not the living truth that is our Father..
The thing is the MECHANISM itself whereby "spiritual truth" is revealed directly to the individual...The way it plays out here in the mortal world..We are a SELF CREATED BEING - let that sink in a moment Folks - then try to appreciate this..
Because we ARE a Self crated Being - for now quite literally TWO beings actually - one mortal here - the other part eternal Soul mostly unknown to the mortal..Because we are divided for now - then the Soul MUST present its truth in a manner that the mortal Self can accept.. The Soul cant just come along and dump the eternal nature out in the open - for the mortal is FINITE and INDIVIDUAL - such an eternal nature is ALIEN and completely baffling to the mortal mind - at first - and so the Soul must take baby steps - present its truth in a manner that is acceptable always....
And so Mani - and every one of us of course - had his SPIRITUAL experience - and of course his mind took the raw naked truth that was delivered, and then veiled it in things that the mortal mind could ACCEPT and understand...And so that "religious version" of truth begins to take shape - as individual takes DIRECT revealed truth and tries to make it make sense with all the OTHER LEARNED TRUTHS he already holds..All the TRADITIONAL truth picked up from those around...The spiritual experience becomes adapted to fit those PRECONCEIVED IDEAS and so the "religious truth" emerges....
This was Manis main problem - particulary his as he took a wide diverse range of cultures and tried ot gel them as one "truth" - but it can be used to illustrate ALL religious doctrines - he couldnt see past the PRE CONCEIVED and second hand learned truths - all those EXTERNAL INFLUENCES and all those external "authorities" and teachers and leaders, already established "religious truths" , all invaded influenced and overtook his SPIRITUAL truth that was revealed DIRECTLY and LEGITIMATELY - and so Mani failed to deliver the naked truth but settled once again as they all do, for a limited tainted version of truth that was based wholly on other limited truths also.. Immediately his truth became corrupted by PRE CONCEIVED IDEAS of what that truth SHOULD be - and yet more of this was done as OTHERS then come along forming the religion and adding THEIR version and interpretation also...Thus INEVITABLY - with ALL religion - ORIGINAL SPIRITUAL TRUTH - gets twisted in this manner to become a truth that is barely recognisable or compatable (sometimes) to the original intent.. Religion can ONLY give you truth of MAN - it can NEVER give you truth of SPIRIT - never reveal that DIRECTLY for you...
Christ knew all that - and so He said as above - shun and avoid ALL religious institution - come to HATE the parents -DAMN the religious authority - follow no MAN priest guru teacher master or religion He said - for NONE are capable to lead you to eternal truth He said and will ALWAYS lead you astray - follow ONLY and always the INNER guide - for that is where the Divine dwells - within the Self - find it bring it forth and "save" your own Self
EDIT :
Tumah; Ah my friend - ALWAYS take conscious note of your surroundings - even if it is a "boring wall" that confronts you - even boring walls may have hidden treasures - "graffiti" can often be very enlightening
Yer, Mani is a very interesting character - far more "spiritual" than "religious" - based his entire theology on the PERSONALLY REVEALED TRUTH - the gnosis so gained - as I my Self do - as Christ taught and advised as the only legitimate path - follow THAT inner guide always He said - attain the Holy Ghost.....
Indeed, Mani actually had some very similar experiences to my own - in that at first he believed the "spirit" he encountered and communed with was a seperate entity - but then later realised that actually this was in fact his OWN SOUL - his own eternal nature that he had found - and only AFTER that realisation set in did he begin to realise other universal truths to creation itself and begin to encounter the spiritual realms that always surround us...As usual - OTHERS took his knowledge that he wrote down and they formed a "religion" out of the things he experienced himself directly....As usual then - ALL RELIGION IS SECONDHAND KNOWLEDGE learned from an other external source, and it not the living truth that is our Father..
The thing is the MECHANISM itself whereby "spiritual truth" is revealed directly to the individual...The way it plays out here in the mortal world..We are a SELF CREATED BEING - let that sink in a moment Folks - then try to appreciate this..
Because we ARE a Self crated Being - for now quite literally TWO beings actually - one mortal here - the other part eternal Soul mostly unknown to the mortal..Because we are divided for now - then the Soul MUST present its truth in a manner that the mortal Self can accept.. The Soul cant just come along and dump the eternal nature out in the open - for the mortal is FINITE and INDIVIDUAL - such an eternal nature is ALIEN and completely baffling to the mortal mind - at first - and so the Soul must take baby steps - present its truth in a manner that is acceptable always....
And so Mani - and every one of us of course - had his SPIRITUAL experience - and of course his mind took the raw naked truth that was delivered, and then veiled it in things that the mortal mind could ACCEPT and understand...And so that "religious version" of truth begins to take shape - as individual takes DIRECT revealed truth and tries to make it make sense with all the OTHER LEARNED TRUTHS he already holds..All the TRADITIONAL truth picked up from those around...The spiritual experience becomes adapted to fit those PRECONCEIVED IDEAS and so the "religious truth" emerges....
This was Manis main problem - particulary his as he took a wide diverse range of cultures and tried ot gel them as one "truth" - but it can be used to illustrate ALL religious doctrines - he couldnt see past the PRE CONCEIVED and second hand learned truths - all those EXTERNAL INFLUENCES and all those external "authorities" and teachers and leaders, already established "religious truths" , all invaded influenced and overtook his SPIRITUAL truth that was revealed DIRECTLY and LEGITIMATELY - and so Mani failed to deliver the naked truth but settled once again as they all do, for a limited tainted version of truth that was based wholly on other limited truths also.. Immediately his truth became corrupted by PRE CONCEIVED IDEAS of what that truth SHOULD be - and yet more of this was done as OTHERS then come along forming the religion and adding THEIR version and interpretation also...Thus INEVITABLY - with ALL religion - ORIGINAL SPIRITUAL TRUTH - gets twisted in this manner to become a truth that is barely recognisable or compatable (sometimes) to the original intent.. Religion can ONLY give you truth of MAN - it can NEVER give you truth of SPIRIT - never reveal that DIRECTLY for you...
Christ knew all that - and so He said as above - shun and avoid ALL religious institution - come to HATE the parents -DAMN the religious authority - follow no MAN priest guru teacher master or religion He said - for NONE are capable to lead you to eternal truth He said and will ALWAYS lead you astray - follow ONLY and always the INNER guide - for that is where the Divine dwells - within the Self - find it bring it forth and "save" your own Self
EDIT :
Tumah; Ah my friend - ALWAYS take conscious note of your surroundings - even if it is a "boring wall" that confronts you - even boring walls may have hidden treasures - "graffiti" can often be very enlightening
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Raelians believe in Jesus. They believe that he along with a number of religious figures through history (e.g. the Buddha) were one of the "Elohim".
Apparently, L. Ron Hubbard taught that Jesus existed but wasn't God. I'm not sure if it's absolutely required for Scientologists to believe this.
Apparently, L. Ron Hubbard taught that Jesus existed but wasn't God. I'm not sure if it's absolutely required for Scientologists to believe this.
Augustus
…
He's part of the pantheon in Cao Daiism too. This was a religion started in Vietnam early 20thC:
Cao Dai means 'Supreme Being,' but there's also a pantheon.. the pantheon has five levels. At the top is Buddha and others who have achieved Buddha-hood. Next are the Great Immortals, including Confucius, the Chinese poet Li Po and the Mother Goddess.
On the third tier are the Saints, including writers Shakespeare and Victor Hugo, Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Joan of Arc, Louis Pasteur, Asian nationalist Sun Yat-sen, Lenin and Vietnamese poet and prophet Trang Trinh. Venerated spirits or ancestors, including all those who give their life for their country, occupy the fourth level. Humanity makes up the fifth.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka the "Mormons") is a Christian church. Like all Christians, we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. We don't just "believe in" Jesus. Our entire theology is centered on Him.
Mormons are Christians
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
But you don't have to believe in "the Trinity" as it was defined 325 years after Christ's death. You can just go with what the Bible says about Jesus and be just fine.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Don't they have their own book? I can never tell which group is considered an accepted Christian group and which not.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I thought since you had your own books, you're considered an offshoot of Christianity. Like Baha'i to Islam or something.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
What some people believe us to be and what we believe ourselves to be is an entirely different thing. Here is the basic premise behind Mormonism:
1. Jesus Christ established His Church as a part of His mortal ministry.
2. After His death, men changed that Church -- both the doctrines that were taught and the way in which the Church was structured and functioned.
3. That Church has been restored to the earth again, complete with all of the original doctrines and authority, through direct intervention by Jesus Christ.
Yes, we do have books in addition to (but not in place of) the Bible, and this is one of the main reasons some exclude us from the Christian family. I find this interesting since there is nowhere in the Bible where the claim is made that it (the Bible) is a complete record of God's interactions with humanity and that He decided at any point to stop talking to mankind.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Neither can Christians.